Entry door again?

Last week I posted a question regarding a diamond beveled pattern insert I am making for my entry door. The insert will measure approximately 20" X 60" and is primarily 4" x 7" beveled diamonds. I originally planned to place the insert between two sheets of tempered glass. Several folks scoffed at my idea and caused me to see the light. Since then I have read a more articles on large panels and have no intention of doing a laminate/ sandwich insert. My question now is what to use to stiffen it? I am not pleased with the looks I have seen with lead came and zinc stiffeners. What about using zinc came or brass came? Are there any pitfalls to be aware of with either of those?

Thanks,

Rog

Reply to
Roger Jensen
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Using either brass or zinc will give you more rigidity than you will get from lead. Lead is easier to work with, IMO. Brass, while very pretty, is absolutely horrible to cut. It will dull any blade or cutoff wheel you have. I built 15 windows for a church a couple of years ago, with a 7"x 4" diamond pattern out of brass came. Thought I'd NEVER get done with them, swore I'd never ever, ever, do anything with brass again. Doing a geometric pattern as you are, if it were me, I'd go with zinc. No matter what you select, you'll still have to putty the came.

On a side note, recently, I've been seeing some zinc came in doors where the zinc is polished, almost to the shine of chrome. How are they doing that? Does anybody know the technique?

Reply to
Moonraker

Electroplate Nickel, and "they" are also doing it in Brass. Have been for a while, Peachtree doors and Therma Tru are both using plated zinc inserts.

Reply to
Javahut

Is this came purchased already electroplated? Surely they aren't electroplating a finished panel?

Reply to
Moonraker

The Therma-Tru windows are the pieces I have looked at recently, and they were plated after being built....... Why not? Solder a couple of rings to the outside edge to hang them from, use copper wire, hang them from the carrier, dip in the tank, etc. when it is done they are rinsed in clear cold water, wiped down with a chamois cloth, cut the loops off and insulate. Couldn't be easier. in theory. They are not cemented, nor did I see enough room in the metal to add any, very tight tolerances, hence the double roll glass, Spectrum and Pilkington.

Reply to
Javahut

Yup, they sure do. You need to drill some small holes in the edge came so they can put little hookes or wires through it to suspend it in the chemical tank. I had some panels electroplated a while back. I was told, before hand at the time, they would NOT plate panels if there was any zinc or putty in them as that would spoil their chemicals. Not sure if that's the way it works in all shops or only at this particular shop. The colours they had available were chrome, brass ("gold"), black and dark brown. You putty the panel after the plating and there are no special tricks you need to do because of the plating although I wouldn't use too stiff a brush. The plating does not affect the glass in any way unless you use irridiant (spelling?) glass, the funky mother of pearl kinda looking stuff, as the chemicals do "bake" onto that type of glass and scratching if off is a tedious and time consuming process. Plating looks real nice and one of the things I like about it is that there's no longer any exposed lead as all of it is totally

*encapsulated* (the proper buzz word) and that could be an important sales feature. Plating shops usually charge a flat rate, whatever fits in their chemical tank for $125~200 (in this area, SW Ontario, any way). You might want to ask them about the maximum size panels their tank holds, not much point bringing a 6 foot sidelight if their tank's only 5 feet. Shops are listed in the Yellow Pages under "plating."

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Reply to
Bart V

Damned new-fangled technology, anyway! What'll they be thinking up next? ;>)

Reply to
Moonraker

While it is true that zinc is stronger the lead. The problem faced with windows is design,craftsmanship and location. Depending on the above items you may need rebar. MANY zinc window bow, solder joints break etc. because of lack of support. Many builders have fallen under the same misconception as you. I have rebuilt many of them.

Reply to
vic

I agree that design and craftsmanship have a large part to play in how a window/panel performs over the years. In the years that I've specialized in on-site repair and restoration of residental entryway art glass (and bath windows, too), I've seen just about any and all combinations of metals. But if the putty used in the window fails, it doesn't make any difference what metals are used.

Reply to
Moonraker

yeah, so construct it with copper foil and incorporate srongline reinforcing, even steel rebar if necessary, and you don't have to rely on the putty failing!!! m (i just know this will get off track on the issues of came vs. foil but i gots to say what gots to be said.)

Reply to
Michele Blank

And you protect the home from weather how? Let me guess, the foil is attached sooooo tightly to the glass with that acrylic adhesive that water can't get in?

Reply to
Javahut

Has anyone used those little plating kits with the wands?

Reply to
C Ryman

no, i put tempered glass to the exterior which insulates, weatherproofs, protects from hurricane/storm/neighbor kids baseballs, etc. and allows the owner the option of taking the stained glass out when selling the home. m

Reply to
Michele Blank

Yup, want to buy one?

Small rectifier, plating solutions, graphite wands and connections. They work to a point. Would be better on things small, very thin layer plated, and must be clean, very clean. But there is a ton of info on "brush plating" as it is called. I have the small rectifier, and I was serious if you have an interest, not expensive.

Reply to
Javahut

AH-HA,

Reply to
Javahut

Does the rectifier look like a large electrical plug with alligator clips in the other end? Can't think any small thing that I really really need plated. The gold would probably wear off fast. Thanks

Reply to
C Ryman

It looks closer to a small battery charger, with plug ins for the "ground clip" and "the Brush", which isn't actually a brush but a graphite wand. Details come with purchase, works well for bright copper, gold, (in solution) probably nickel, but I never tried that one. I used it for bright copper alot.

Reply to
Javahut

Plating onto lead requires some interesting chemicals that aren't available in wand form. Caswell, who sell the "Plug'n'Plate," which I assume is similar to what you're talking about, also sell something they call "Flash Copper," which they claim can plate lead if you first treat it (the lead) with their "Pickle #4." The "Pickle #4" and "Flash Copper" processes both seem to require immersion. I've refrained from trying to find an MSDS on any of these things, but I'm inclined to believe that three-stage plating processes requiring big buckets of acid are something I'd want to leave to the professionals.

Reply to
Ron Parker

My older brother at one time owned a plating plant as part of one of his businesses. I wrote him asking about what kinds of plating could be done to what kinds of metals. Below is his answer:

"Copper and brass can be plated with nickel, chrome or cadmium ( and maybe silver and gold ) Zinc could be coated with black zinc. Lead can be plated with copper, nickel, chrome, or cadmium. ( as in bullets ) Aluminum can be anodized ( any color ). If you have a sample, send it and I will find out what it is. I mention cadmium as an academic note only as environmental concerns have almost wiped out any usage of it now."

I don't know if this is a totally complete listing of the possibilities, but it does answer part of the discussion.

Reply to
Moonraker

What part of the world is he in? Does he do custom, one off, piece plating or is it automated, production type plating?

Some of us need to know these things. What sort of stuff does he plate now?

Reply to
Javahut

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