Semi-OT - forum censorship

Kalera has the right to post her opinions on this or ANY public news group as do you. To post a counter-point is one thing, but your reply to her was clearly a personal attack and totally uncalled for. Perhaps you should exercise your own rights by simply not clicking on this discussion and reading it, if it bothers you so.

Thanks Kalera, I appreciate this information as well as your opinions. Although I'm a member of WC I do not post over there, but mainly because of time. I agree with you that a private message between users should be just that. Private. If they don't want their users to promote or share other resources then they should remove the private messaging option from their forum, rather than to violate their own policy as it suits them.

Kandice,

One thing from your post just floors me....that you said ISBG is fine, but somewhat elitist. I feel the exact same way and that's one reason I've never even bothered to subscribe although I feel if I stay in this art it's valuable to do so.

I'm with Kalera on WC. For a while things have steadily gotten worse although I think it's still a good site for sharing. I wouldn't consider putting on any tutorials for free. If I want to do that then I'll post it on my site and keep it there for free or charge as I see fit. I sure wouldn't keep putting money in their pockets since they are lined now by patrons and advertisers.

WC is for profit and they have so many stupid rules it's just a pain considering what you can or can't say. That's why I've always felt so free here. I'm not around much lately since my life if upside down but hopefully it will get better soon.

Kalera -- I have long resisted joining Wet-Canvas... the only time I ever seemed to hear about it was when something "bad" was going on, there was a dispute (including the no links thing.. which has been going on a long time)... and people sniping at each other, bad feelings, hurt feelings. RARELY - someone would post about some "gem" of a great bead -- but beyond that -- it did not call to me.

I agree - go with the "non-profits" - and leave the profit makers to their own devices... I wouldn't give them a moment's satisfaction of posting there anymore...

< I WILL be contributing, financially and otherwise, to not-for-profit forums like and not to mention putting my body and voice in places where I think I can make a difference, like

You know, moonraker, on rec.crafts.glass, we have learned to ignore your brutish behavior - I usually just stop reading a thread once you come on. Seems like a reasonable discussion to me. I wonder how many people just skip out on rec.crafts.glass after encountering your "contributions"?

Who is "we" that has learned?

And I do the same thing when I read your self serving posts .. so your not alone in your action, and it is up to us if we want to or not.

So what's your point?

I agree with you, personal messages should not be censored, but I haven't yet experienced any of the censoring on the wearable arts board.

What I don't agree with, is the people who say you shouldn't go there because it's a "for profit" organisation. The person who started the site had a great idea. Somewhere for ALL artists to go. How cool is that? The massive cost of the servers and the bandwidth and the sheer time it would take to set up and programme those forums is serious money! I think it's great that they sell advertising rather than just go bust and disappear. I bet that the person running it doesn't make any decent amount of money from that website. Every page anyone views on wet canvas costs someone money. Why shouldn't they either charge the user or sell advertising to pay for those costs? We also know the ridiculous costs of just keeping an artist website running. Multiply that cost by thousands.

(Not an attack on Kalera, just fed up of people thinking that they should get everything for free).

Charlie.

I have to totally agree with you Kandice. I do not feel comfortable over at Art Glass Forum. I haven't been in a while, but the people that run that seem very negative and just want to complain about WC and other sites. Also, I think, the won't allow certain people from WC to post because they are not allowed to post at WC because of inappropriate behavior in the past. It is all a mess. SIGH, OK, here I am complaining about the compalining, I'm not much better. :)

I don't find ISGB elitist, but lately just super slow with very little postings.

Lara

You can kiss my ass. How's that for brutish?

Maybe some of us could. might even be easy, considering it's where your face should be. Either that, or your head's up it!

Oh, please. Just because you say so? I don't think so. Maybe you should get over it yourself.

Thank you, Kim. :) I am scraping up the courage - there are so many knowledgeable people there. I do read the forum consistently, though. :)

Good point, Patti. The feuds there do seem to be among the same people all the time. I should just ignore it - I know. Someday maybe. :) When I have something interesting to contribute.

Charlie - I think you're misreading. A for profit organization isn't in business just to pay their own costs. They are in business to make money above and beyond the costs. Wet Canvas used to be not-for-profit - they used to ask for donations and advertising dollars just to pay their own costs.

All of that is fine. But WC still masks itself as a not for profit. They still ask for donations (memberships) with the reason that they need to pay for their website - when in reality, they are now in business to make money above and beyond. I just can't support that.

They censor based on advertising now - and they break their own rules every single day. Their moderation team plays favorites in the Glass Art section, most certainly. (One example - there's been a thread up with a link to a thread on ISBG for several days, but they are removing links to AGF as fast as they possibly can. There are many more examples of this, not just links, but they have favorite members as well.)

WC used to be just fine. But about a year ago, rules began to change left and right - most of them to increase their profits. Yes, change is always inevitable. But change for the worse is not something I personally can get behind.

Ah, we're discussing the Glass Art forums at WC, and the Art Glass Forum (AGF) - not just beadmaking, sweetie. The people at those forums work all kinds of glass, so this is most certainly on topic. Don't like it, don't read it.

Ah - what? The original post was cross-posted - I just replied. WC has a glass forum, and this is what we're talking about. It's on topic in both rec. groups. Don't like it, don't read it.

Okay, I have done some thinking about AGF specifically, and since it's been quite awhile since I have posted or read that board, I am willing to concede the possibility that things have changed for the better since I have been there. And I apologize for being a little abrasive about it - I should change the post below to say that I feel *some* people there are one-sided. I still think that. There are some people at AGF that I really don't like. But Kalera vouches for the forum as a whole, and I truly respect her and her opinions, so I am going to try it again. Hopefully I will have better luck this time. :)

As long as we're talking about netiquette, though, could we do something about the top-posting and the quoting entire threads? Not that either is rare for r.c.g, but it seemed like as good a time as any to bring it up, since everyone in the thread hates everyone else in the thread already.

Has anyone told the top dog how they feel? Have you gone to the owner and said "I think you should be more honest"? Maybe someone should.

Personally I love the wearable arts section and I don't have a problem with any of their practices, but that's just me.

Charlie.