OT: Origin of festival on December 25th.

With all the talk about a politically correct December holiday, I thought it might be of interest to review where the festival on December

25th comes from; of course all this refers to the *northern* hemisphere. In pre-history, people were worried about the sun leaving them, and not coming back. There are equivocal signs of the sun returning around this date. For example, the earliest sunset comes around December 11th. Those of us whose glass is always half full, celebrate this first harbinger of spring 10 days before winter officially arrives. The latest sunrise comes around December 31st, and the winter solstice is half way in between. Pre-historic mankind were unequivoaclly sure the sun was coming back around December 25th, 4 days or so after the solstice. It was probably called something like "The Festival of Light", as translated into English.
Reply to
F.James Cripwell
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And to me (an atheist) far more important - but the Christian Christmas was timed to take advantage of the pagan celebrations of the Winter Solstice, not on any historical fact. Good thinking, at any rate!

Still, any reason for a celebration seems good to me! The UK has been regarded as a Christian country for many hundreds of years so maybe it`s a bit different here to somewhere like the US which was built from many different races and religions. "An it harm none, do as ye will" from a much older religion, makes the most sense!

Pat P

Reply to
Pat P

In addition to the Solstice celebrations, the Romans celebrated Mithra's birthday on Dec. 25th, so I suspect the Christian Church was eager to aim those celebrations at their own camp. It wasn't declared Jesus' birthday until the 3rd century, I think.

Blessed be all of us, whatever our path!

Pat >

Reply to
Pat in Illinois

Reply to
Jan Lennie

Reply to
Jan Lennie

And although certainly the pope du jour would've been aware that even in the Mediterranean, shepherds wouldn't sleep outside in winter, he specifically picked the date to coordinate with Solstice so that it would not be as obvious that Christians (who were still a minority) were celebrating their Son and instead would blend in with the parties celebating the Sun.

Reply to
Karen C - California

They certainly are - in more ways than one, right now!

I wish I had known more about the old religion many years ago. Can`t see me dancing naked in the woods these days, though! (Be grateful for that, at least!)

Pat P

Reply to
Pat P

I am going from memory, but I think the current "christian" calendar started after the Council of Nicea, when Constantine made the Roman Empire a Christian empire. IIRC, Dionysius "invented" what became the basis for the modern calendar. However, the first day of the year was March 25th, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. That is to say you went from March 24th 1066 to March 25th 1067. Further changes were made to the calendar when Pope Gregory XIII (?) instituted the Gregorian calendar. In the UK, and other parts of the British Empire, the current calendar started in 1752. The Orthodox Churches, of course, still keep to the Julian Calendar.

Reply to
F.James Cripwell

An interesting discussion on Christmas can be found at snopes.com under holidays. It says the Dec. 25th date was first suggested in the 4th century - even later than I expected.

Personally, I think songs should be sung the way they are written. And that includes using "Christmas" in them. Whenever it occurred, Christmas was a pivotal event in European culture. But I do like the fact that we are more careful not to act as if everyone else is Christian - seems like plain good manners to our fellow men and women who don't follow that particular belief.

And Pat - knowing a little about your climate - I doubt if there was a lot of nude frolicking in the greenwood! More likely to have been done in heavy woolens!

Pat in Illinois

Reply to
Pat in Illinois

I've been away till yesterday, but this is something I usually post whenever this annual discussion comes up. It's not meant to harm anyone, but to give another perspective. Personally, based on the Christian model of God, I am athiest. I have no problem with whatever people want to call the holidays, but I do find it to be getting worse and more garish than it ever was when I was a kid.

It Came Upon a Midnight Clear

On December 21st, the sun reaches its nadir on this travels across Earth's horizons, an event we call the Winter Solstice. The Sun appears to hesitate for the next three days before beginning its six-month return to zenith on June 21st, which we call the Summer Solstice.

In ancient times it was believed that the Sun began is ascent exactly at midnight three days after the Solstice. Though there were no clocks in those days, our ancestor' method of calculating that precise moment was accurate. The same method is not quite as accurate today, due to the slight shift in the heavenly bodies. This ancient method is as follows:

At nightfall on December 24th, in the eastern sky you will see three prominent stars. These are the belt of the constellation of Orion. These stars are often called the Three Wise Magicians, or the Three Kings of the Orient. If you imagine a straight line through these stars towards the east, you will come to a point on the horizon that the Egyptians, in 2000BCE called "Aptah", which means "crib or cradle". It is exactly at this point that in a very short time the brightest star in the winter sky, Sirius, will appear. The place of Sirius' emergence marks the exact spot where the Sun will make its appearance at dawn.

The birth place of the newborn Sun is in the foreground of the constellation of Virgo, the Virgin. The constellation of Taurus, the Bull, and Capricorn, the Goat, are situated close by, which is why this area of the sky was called "the Stable". So we have before us in the winter sky the entire nativity scene: the three kings of the Orient pointing to a star that marks the precise birthplace of the infant God-King, born of a virgin in a celestial stable.

The ancients charted the travel of the star Sirius as it moved westward. At the mid-point of its travels, it marks the rebirth of the night Sun at midnight of December 25th, the beginning of many gay festivities and celebration, then just like today. To our ancestors this meant the Sun had won out over Old Man Winter, that all life would be saved by its warm, life-giving rays. The Sun had experienced death for three days, but on December 25th it was resurrected, reborn on Natalis Solis Invicti, "The Birth of the Unconquered Sun." "Christ's Mass or Christmas", really means "Sun's Mass." The title Christ may be traced to the Chaldean "Chris" a name of the Sun. Its Hebrew equivalent, "Heres" occurs several times in the Old Testament where it is always translated as "Sun".

Solar theology has inspired some religions to bolster their own deities by borrowing from the power of the Sun, and much confusion exists because of this practice. However, anyone can look for themselves: on a December midnight clear, the truth is revealed. To know that the Sun will bring us warmed, green crops, and renewed life is certainly grounds for rejoicing.

Blessings to all

Reply to
Jangchub

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