SIGH (entirely on topic)

What would make the difference for me in an LNS would be having a stitching group. My one LNS has a group, but they only meet in the evenings, and I can't do that. I'd LOVE a daytime group.

A good question.

I'd bet it's all of those, and something else in the business practice area

- what is the profit margin they're willing, able to live with? Are their buildings owned space or leased, and what are the leases like? And you left off: Location?

Around here, when my friend was getting ready to move her shop, which has been in business over 25 years - she had a terrible time finding a location that didn't have an much too high for a needlework shop kind of rent. A lot of the newer strips, cute little shopping areas that you'd think would be perfect - are looking for either high rentals, or they want "chain" type shops or both. Going into some cute old re-done house is nice - but then there are sometimes zoning issues. In this case, she found a place in a park of min-warehouse spaces - with some other businesses. And changed the loading door to a big glass wall.

It's a difficult business - this instance, like some others - the excellent framing service allows for the needlework business to exist. She does more in the framing (as in has bigger inventory, does chops, building of frames) in the shop than some of the other LNS that also frame. Some of those don't do as much of the frame manufacturing - they order in the moldings from the distributor pre-assembled, but still stretch, mount, etc.

Customer service is a big thing, and loyalty. There are a lot of customers who follow my friend for their framing. And where you feel welcome in the shop.

Inventory is another issue. Some of the distributors require pretty sizable minimum orders. And what you carry for threads/yarn - an entire line is a big investment. How much teaching you can do - which is a little supplement

- more so because people will then shop - not so much on the class profit margin.

Speaking with several of the LNS owners - they're not too happy about folks like Kreinik selling on their website direct to consumer. The shop may have a minimum $50 order - that's a lot of metallics - yet Kreinik sells directly, with no minimum, and has sales on the website. Some companies will offer promos to the shops - usually at a show - like free shipping or buy xxx, get yyy.

Interestingly, a lot of customers seem to think that if they shop at one store, they can't go to some other because the owners will get mad. But, at lest in this area most of the shops are in a regional retailers association, which really became more active about 5 years ago - and it's more a mutual aid. Each of the shops has its own personality - so they're actually good about referring around. One shop has tons and tons of threads, and NP - another a lot of silks, XS, & some crewel, another lots of XS, some NP, framing and artsy stuff, another lots of XS, some NP and lots of fabrics, with some framing. Different lines of threads - and they'll talk about how things are selling, how different distributors, thread suppliers are, etc.

One other thing that we don't usually think about - who's selling where. When some of the local designers, or someone who makes tools/accessories wants a local shop to carry their stuff - the shop - if the quality is there

- will usually do so. But, again - the shop is putting money into carrying inventory now. We've seen these seem local designers then selling directly

- at retail - at guild meetings. So, the result - why should a shop invest if you're going to sell directly to the shop's customer base? In one instance - a designer (with a somewhat prickly personality), very talented stitcher (amazingly neat) was doing this. The owner of one of the LNS (a very well known person in the needlework retail industry) espied said designer en-route into her shop, and very loudly greeted her with "OH, Look

- it's MMMMMMM - that designer who sells her stuff on any street corner!" And then said, "no, I'm not buying any more of your charts" . Said designer, was quite perturbed by this (and this is a woman with a temper). So, the LNS owner that also does her framing had to finally sit her down and explain that the local shops were pretty unhappy that she was out there actively selling her stuff directly to the stitchers - several guild chapter meetings - so how were they supposed to sell their inventory?

Honestly, I think a lot comes down to traffic, trying to get new customers and keeping the established ones coming back. Customers tend to gravitate to calling one shop their primary - the one they go to stitch night at, feel the most bond or whatever. And, how much can you afford to invest to really stock, being smart about your inventory, treating business like a business versus a hobby (and there are some shops which are clearly in the hobby thinkng area still - one locally - changed owners, locale, and they have a lot of stuff - including lines that the established shops have decided not to carry because they were difficult to sell - but you have to learn what works).

Again, while most shops carry some of both - it's hard and expensive to carry equal amounts. Shops that specialize in NP will have a lot of specialty threads in sizes that Xser don't use. But, it's good to carry at least some of the other. There are NP shops that only carry NP. Just where you are, what the customer base will support.

And, it is true that web businesses have hurt the brick and mortar shops. The physical shops have had teo rethink their strategies so that you will shop there. No one can stay in business just on charts - but if people are running everywhere else to get their fabric, or their other supplies - it's hard for the shop to stay solvent. Hence, many shops sell their floss at very close to cost - it's important to have it on hand, so....

As a designer, if you've joined TNNA or INRG and go to a show, or read the members newsletters - you'd see some of this discussion. It's interesting. Personally, my thought is it's the rare shop owner who's getting "rich" . Most that I know love doing this, and that's why their shops are successful, and many of them have other jobs/careers - or ways to keep the shop going.

Just my long more than 2 cents worth, ellice

Nice thought. I like when the shop is comfy enough that you could just hang out and stitch there, if you like. At the LKS I'm always seeing people sitting and knitting at all hours.

Why don't you put up a sign at the LNS seeking to start a daytime crew?

ellice