Questions on Ingredients

Well just posting has gotten me to the point of ordering ingredients. Now I'm stuck on which ones. Can anyone tell my why one over the other? Is the more expensive necessarily the better buy (or visa versa)?

whiting Snocal 40 whiting Vicron 2511

Wollastonite W10 200M Wollastonite W20 352M

Rutile Light Ceramic Rutile Dark Milled Rutile Grandular

Neph Syn 270M Minex3 Neph Syn 400M Minex4

Potash Custer Potash G-200

Bentonite Western 200M Bentonite Western 325M Bentonite B Betonite 149

*Flint SIL-CO-SIL 75 (200M) Flint SIL-CO-SIL 52 (325M) Flint SIL-CO-SIL 40 (400M)

  • is this what I'm to use for Silica in the MC6G book?

Reply to
dkat
Loading thread data ...

First, flint is indeed the form of silica most folks use. Higher mesh numbers (xxxM) indicate finer powders; they have been passed through a mesh with that many threads or wires per inch. Finer powders make glazes that will melt together faster, but I don't really have any experience comparing differences betweeen (say) 325M and 400M... I'd guess this would make no difference to most uses. I tend to mentally divide things into "coarse" and "fine" at around 100M, and wouldn't hesitate to use anything over 200M in a glaze. Prices may differ, so I'd go with what gets the job done most economically.

And you might want to get some Gillespie Borate (or some other GB substitute) for those times when you need to get a low-temperature melt and low expansion. There are lots of recipes that call for this (or an "equivalent" frit), so I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

Just my $0.02 worth...

Bob Masta dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom D A Q A R T A Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis

formatting link

Reply to
Bob Masta

Dkat: Bob has already replied on mesh sizes, so I would add that you will get different results from the light rutile, and the rutile granular. You should have both. If a "recipe" doesn't specify, use the light rutile. As far as the feldspars, Custer and G-200. Again, you should have both, and some K4 as well, since different glazes call for different types of 'spar.

Personally, I always go with the finest grain I can get. Easier to mix, stays in suspension better. If the price is not that different, that is, since I can always grind it down finer myself and re-sieve it.

Best,

Wayne Seidl Key West, Florida, USA North America, Terra Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)

Reply to
wayneinkeywest

Thank you. I was going to get 3195 and 3134 Frits - will those do? And which is the Rutile you would use for glazes?

This is my current list that I'm trying to whittle it down if you care -

G200 Feldspar 12 Custer Feldspar 15 Ferro Frit 3134 50 Ferro Frit 3195 62 Wollastonite 12 Whiting 12 Nepheline Syenite12 OM-4 Ball Clay EPK 12 Silica Talc 9 Spanish Red Iron Oxide 30

Rutile Green Chrome Ox Tin Oxide Titanium Dioxide

Reply to
dkat

Thank you - scratch the rutile question just posted.... Beginning to feel a bit more confident (I was fearless until I had kids....) :)

Reply to
dkat

Reply to
wayneinkeywest

I tend you use ceramic grade rutile which is darker than light rutile and use that unless light is specified. As far as the whiting goes, aske your supplier what the difference is. I know with some wollastonites for instance, there is a bit of iron, so you might want to find whichever whiting or wollastonite is purer. Although Custer and G200 can usually be used interchangeable, Custer has a bit more silica which can help prevent crazing if your recipe is on the border as far of expansion is concerned. If you know how to reformulate a recipe, with or without software, it's easy enough to reformulate it for a different spar; but in most cases, either one would have a good chance of working. The frits aren't interchangeable really, because although thy all have boron, the other ingredients vary. 3195 has more alumina in it for instance and I use that if I want a high alumina recipe and don't want too much clay in the recipe. You get a bit more boron for the money in 3195 which is why I often use it, but I make sure it fits in on a molecular level with my recipe.

If you're working at cone 6 I would not advise getting your list of materials too small.

You can do without wollastonite and reformulate the recipe for silica and whiting which is what wollastonite is composed of; but you'll have to back engineer the recipe.

For cone 6, minimum materials list, I would advise

Frit 3134 Neph sy F4 soda spar Custer epk OM4 ball clay whiting talc dolomite silica - 200 mesh spodumene zinc oxide bentonite Zircopax or Superpax Tin Oxide and your basic coloring oxides

With these ingredients you can formulate alkaline glazes, calcium or alumina matts, etc. These are also the ingredients you would most commonly find in cone

6 recipes.

If you want to extend the list, you can also get some of these to play around with: wollastnite

barium carbonate strontium carbonate Lithium carbonate Gillespie Borate or Boraq (Gerstley substitutes) Volcanic ash Frit 3124 Frit 3195

Regards, June

formatting link

Reply to
ShantiP1

:) have had our dog on a diet after they made fun of her at the vets. She is much thinner, more active and BOY does she ADORE me when I'm in the kitchen!

fabulously,

Reply to
dkat

Thank you. I will attempt to keep all of this in mind. Given that I am working out of half of my basement I really am limited both in space and time. I would like to find 2 basic base glazes (glossy and matt) that I can create at most 6 glazes from. I know what glaze look I like. Also I am old enough and have been with my toes in the water long enough that I doubt I will change (that is after almost 3 decades I find that I always gravitate to the same 3 or 4 glazes).

Gold-cream breaking rust (matt or glossy breaking matt) Glossy Sea green (breaking rust on an iron body and not on a white body); Randy's Red (without the GB) Glossy Opal blue

If I had any ability to paint, I would want a matt white....

Reply to
dkat

To add a little to June's excellent advice. When you have settled on the core selection of glazes that you like be as consistent as you can over the materials you use, don't go for different stuff because it is cheaper or your glazes could change for the worse.

Steve Bath UK

In article , ShantiP1 writes

Reply to
Steve Mills

That could be a nasty surprise (mixing up 5 gallons of glaze to then have to throw it out or live with yucky results - how do you throw out 5 gallons of glaze?)! Thank you. I suppose I will have to do some more thorough analysis. Luckily I have read "Mastering Cone 6 Glazes" and already have enough science background to know that CuO2 does not really equal CuO (same weight will give different amounts of Copper molecules). I will be basing my glazes on MC6G but their recipes are such, that what Silica, Neph, etc. to use is not given and I did not have a clue what the source of Silica would be (since most people are dependent on what their supplier has that makes sense and it also makes clearer why the glazes have to be adjusted for local use). When I used to make up glazes the supplies were there for me and I never had to think about what they were or what to order..... Thanks to all the postings I have now learned why milling matters and what the trade offs are, that raw material sold under the same main name but from different makers may have different chemical compositions, and that Flint and Quartz are the material to buy for silica.... (though that one still confuses me some), etc. I really do appreciate all the response.

Reply to
dkat

You might take a look at my website. I have a lot of cone 6 oxidation tests pictures with recipes listed. There is a very good calcium matt recipe there that I formulated based on a calcium eutectic in the Parmalee book. I show a few different colors -- pale green like a blue green celadon and a few rutile bearings ones ranging from peach to deep orange. There are also some transparent glossy glazes as well, with a few color variations. Know that if you use the glaze recipes from the Mastering Glazes book, that you might want to use 200 mesh silica, since finer silica can cause those glazes to move more if you fire to a large cone 6, which is what I think those glazes were formulated for. I've tested a couple of them and the chrome tin red for instance, looks best with a cone 7 bar cone which is equivalent to a large cone 6. I believe that Ron Roy has, in the past, recommended 200 mesh silica/quartz/flint as a safety factor. For a bright blue 1% cobalt carbonate in a calcium, boron etc. glaze would do it. For more interest, in addtion to the cobalt, you can add 3-6& rutile which will give a bit more variegation and more interest. You can also add 1-2% iron along with the other colorants. All of those should give a pretty bright blue, particularly on a white body. Darker bodies will tone down the brightness, but you can always use a slip over a dark body if you want to to go that route, but still want the bright blue. Here's my website, if you want to peruse the recipes and pictures.

formatting link
regards, June
formatting link

Reply to
ShantiP1

I have perused your site many a time. My eyes are not good enough to actually be able to see the glazes on the size picture you show and my brain is not nimble enough to connect what tile goes with what description. I do keep trying though..... It is like being in a candy shop and being 5 years old....

Thank you for the information. That is quite helpful to know (and exactly what I was lacking without exactly knowing it).

There are two glazes on digitalfire with Alberta Slip that I really, really like... (but I don't want to use Lithium and I can't find Alberta Slip... ). I could imagine working with only those 2 glazes along with a marble white very easily. These may be the two that I try to crate with chemical analysis.... (I can fantasies right...)

Alberta Slip II Lithium Brown Cone 6 Alberta Slip Rutile Blue for Cone 6

Reply to
dkat

I made the pictures small because they only allow me so much space on the whole web site. You can copy and paste the pictures into a program like Paint Shop Pro and then increase their size. You can download a trial period of Paint Shop Pro off the internet if you don't have it or a similar program. Most of the recipes for the tiles are listed and it shouldn't be difficult to find them. Since some of the glazes have the same base, just different colorants, it just seemed a waste of memory to list the base recipe every time.

Warm regards, June

formatting link

Reply to
ShantiP1

If the pictures were reduced in size to meet a webspace limit, they can't be successfully enlarged again. It would be like looking at the screen through a magnifying glass: you get a bigger view, but no more detail. The detail is lost in the original file reduction.

There are however some evil websites that use full-size files and just format the HTML to show them in a smaller size for layout considerations. (And because the site designer didn't know what was really happening.) With those sites, even the small images take a long time to download, the same as the large images they really are. Those images can then be viewed full-size by clicking on them. (Might have to right-click and download the file, in worst case.) Better site designers would use fast-loading thumbnail images and code them as links to the full-sized images.

Bob Masta dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom D A Q A R T A Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis

formatting link

Reply to
Bob Masta

I have tested this and it works just fine to get a closer, enlarged look. It only distorts if you expand it too much.

Regards, June

formatting link

Reply to
ShantiP1

Didn't work for me (I really can't see anything other than the basic color of the glaze - depth, opacity, variance, etc only show vaguely in a very few)....

I really do appreciate all of the work you have done and that you are sharing. From it I can almost figure out what oxides do what with what ingredients. The problem is I cannot really tell what glaze you are referring to at given times. I'm sure that others are able to connect the dots just fine. I am not a verbal person. For me you would have to have it organized more visually and less verbally (you just lose me when you are talking about color 'J' and Glaze June Perry's #XXXX - which I'm sure is meaningful to you but means nothing to me and then I have to go find what color J is by which time I have forgotten what the tile looked like and what glaze it went to...)

If it were more structured and succinct I could follow - for example

Tile 1 ROW 1 June Perry's #6711 Base GLAZE

34.00 Nepheline Syenite 14.95 Wollastonite 16.43 Grolleg Kaolin 6.20 Barium Carbonate 14.95 Silica 10.47 Talc 3.00 Lithium Carbonate

COL 1 Copper oxide 2%,Cobalt oxide 0.5%,Tin oxide 2% COL 2 Copper Carbonate 2%, Tin Oxide 3% COL 3 Rutile 2.5%, Manganese Dioxide 1%, Titanium dioxide 1% COL 4 3% Copper Carbonate, 2% Tin oxide

ROW 2 June Perry's #6610V3 Base GLAZE

33.00 F4 Soda Spar 5.50 Custer Potash feldspar 10.50 Spodumene 18.00 EPK 8.70 Dolomite 13.00 Ferro Frit 3134 4.00 Zinc Oxide 4.00 Talc 7.00 Silica (use amorphous if possible to help avoid crazing). Total 107

COL 1 Cobalt oxide 0.5%,Tin oxide 2% COL 2 Copper Carbonate 2%, Tin Oxide 3% COL 3 Rutile 2.5%, Titanium dioxide 1% COL 4 3% Copper Carbonate

Reply to
dkat

Directions are clearly given as to what tile is what recipe. If you have a colored printer, you can just right button click to select all and then print the pages out. Then you could easily match the glazes with the recipes. Most of the glazes are clearly described, ie. matt, glossy transparent, etc. and appropriate number given as well as the lettered version with oxide additions for that particular version. It only takes scanning down the page to find it. Each page only has a few rows and there are only a few tiles in each row. As I mentioned before, these sites only allow you so much band width which is why I give the base recipe and then later only give the number and the oxides for the version I'm referring to.. Also, it would have been a monumental task to scan each tile. There would be no time to make pots! LOL I've had many people tests some of these glazes and some have written back to me that they are now including some in their palette. They just dug in and started testing. You will find the same problem to some extent in the Mastering cone 6 glazes book, where they show a pot without listing the recipe and then you have to turn back a page or two to find the recipe and add note the colorants from the page where the picture is listed. This is not uncommon to do either in a book or on web pages where they limit your space.

Regards, June

formatting link

Reply to
ShantiP1

I will try to clarify since you seem to not understand what I'm saying. I'm actually offering a means of decreasing your bandwidth. I have had no problem understanding MC6G or associating the glaze pictures with the recipe. As I said, I am not verbally oriented but function spatially. I did not suggest that you change your picture (a 4X4 matrix). I simply suggested that things be grouped in a systematic way and initially in a less verbose manner. You are offering a free service and as you have stated there are those that have successfully used your page as is. You should be commended. I am not offering criticism but simply feedback on how the page would be legible for someone such as myself. It is certainly yours to use or not use as you wish. Enough wasted bandwidth on this topic I think. Sorry if I took it too far.

Reply to
dkat

InspirePoint website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.