So What's Wrong With A Singer?

Generlly speaking all sewing machine manufacturers produce machines which have broadly equivalent specifications. The difference comes in the detail, personal preferences and quality control. It is the 'quality' aspect for which you pay the extra money.

Generally speaking 'you get what you pay for' mantra is as true for sewing machines as it is for other products. The additonal costs are related to the cost of quality which equates to reliability. Other factors such as features and 'useabilty' are very much a matter of preference. You will never regret buying a quality product and in recent years Singer has slipped in the 'quality' arena.

I started out with a Singer 20 years ago, still have it and still use it on occasion, and it did me fine for many years, and about all that I did was basic quilt piecing. As I became a better quilter and tried different techniques, I found that the Singer, while it worked fine with no sewing problems, just wasn't quite as smooth and accurate as I would have liked. There was some frustration with the machine "holding" the fabric pieces together as I sewed and just other little things here and there. Mom and I went in and I ended up with a Viking Lily, machine four of the six levels at that time, and I haven't regretted it one little bit since then. While more than what you are looking, at $1,400, it has been worth every penny for solidness, accuracy, and all the other features that I wanted. The type of machine that you are looking at is similar to what our Home Ec teacher has for her classroom. They are definitely little workhorses, have held up well between Margot being a little tyrant and the machines being Vikings, and have caused no problems and do everything that is needed.

Personal opinion, whether you get a Viking or something else, I think you want a machine a step up from a Singer for that much better satin stitch for machine applique. I think that you will be so much happier with the options available and fineness of tuning your stitches to how it sews. I think the extra $300 is well worth it. Look at it this way. Where can you save $6 a week for one year and the difference is made up?

Hope this is helpful.

Steven Alaska

From one old fogey to another, you would be much happier with a used, sturdy old Singer or Viking. You say you have a dealer that you really want to buy from who will support your adventure. Wow. For most of us here, the only support we have is right here on rctq. We are a grand support group but some 'in person' guidance would be lovely. Tell your dealer to keep an eye open for a trade-in that would be just right for you. A forty or fifty year-old SM of either brand will do what you're wanting to do. . . very nicely . . and won't collapse when you want to stitch for more than 10 minutes or on something heavy. I have a fine old Singer - seems like she's in the '400' numbers and a Viking in the '900' models. Well, I say 'I have'. DDIL carried off the Singer and DD#1 has the Viking. The only complaints I ever hear from either have been quickly resolved by suggesting that they clean the SM and give her a new needle. Repeat after me: New is not better. Polly

You don't say what model of Singer, but here's my experience, as far as it goes...

The HV Scandanavia is built in Sweden, just as my beloved Lily was. I love machine appliqué, and do quite a bit with the kids. This machine will cope well.

At roughly half the price, you MAY get many more stitches from a Singer, but for such a difference in the price, there has to e a payback... A couple of years back I bought a Singer 117 for my mum. It's a decent enough machine for what it cost and what it weighs... And there is the first problem you may encounter! A lighter weight machine means a lighter and less robust construction and a smaller motor. Less penetrating power... I have experienced my mum's machine getting stuck on something the Lily wouldn't even have noticed! And the lighter weight in a table top machine is going to expose you to 'sewing machine in lap' problems if you are sewing a heavy quilt! Even an ordinary skirt tried to drag this little one off the table! OK so the 117 (and the 118 that has superseded it) IS a 3/4 size machine and built to be very light weight, but after the solidity and power of your 15-91 (I have a 15-88 treadle), you are REALLY going to notice that!

So: take a VERY careful look, TRY both on the sort of thing you are going to do, and, if you go for the Singer, be prepared for it not to last as long and not to like such robust work as you would get from the HV machine.

This is NOT to put you off or promote one machine over the other: it's based on using several different models and makes of machine in your Singer bracket when looking for mum's machine (she NEEDED a much lighter machine than her old Singer 99 or the Viscount 2000 I passed on to her), and comparing it with the HV I've owned since 1998.

I have a singer and also a Husqvarna 550. I would have the Husqvarna every time!

I'm with you, Sherry ... a $2,000 SM isn't in my budget, either.

But I got an AWESOME machine - honestly, a friend of mine had one of those high priced babies and I compared hers to mine and didn't see a lick of difference (at least, with what *I* do on a SM) betwixt them! The only real diff is the fact that hers does machine embroidery whilst mine's limited to monograms and letters ...

Mine's a Kenmore (manufactured by Janome - one of the expensive brands)

385.19150090: it does at least a 100 stitches, smooth, reliable stitching, and will sew pretty much anything I throw at it (and with Halloweenie costumes, I've thrown lame`, fur, silk dup, burlap ... you get the picture! :)

*blush* I've even sewn 150 30-page booklets!! It was for the guild I belonged to, was for an important "cause" and I didn't really know better. At least, that's my excuse. : P

Anyway, I bought mine used, for $300 and NEVER looked back. Hubby has offered me a higher priced machine for several Christmases since then, but again, I LOVE my modest little Kenmore/Janome and won't be getting another unless it's a replacement for my baby!! I was the same way about my '77 Chevy Nova, as a teenager, too, though! ;)

Anyway, keep a used Kenmore in mind ... I've had mine for about 8 years, and it was about 3-4 years old when I bought it ... and it's been a delightful trooper!! :)

Hugs & good luck!! :) Connie :)

You win, Connie. I have never sewn a 30 page booklet. Somehow I imagine one of the DDs or DDILs has but it's just better if I don't know about it. Polly

I actually wore the head out on my Viking 990.....wore other 'unreplaceable parts' out to where it would only sew backwards. it was cheaper to purchase a new one than have this one repaired.thus the Pfaff (it didn't have a drop-in bobbin which I can't handle) The Viking 990 sewed thru 8 layers of denim AND the plastic hump-jumper without skipping a stitch, breaking a needle, or losing speed. The seller didn't believe me when I told her and SHE was the one doing the demo. That sold the Viking 990. It had a few fancy stitches that I rarely used....but wasn't an embroidery machine. It should be in the 'used category's. IF you do go used take all KINDS of fabric with you and plan on sewing at least 30 minutes to 'warm ALL the innards up. If it's gonna act up it will in those

30 min..once again this advice from the "all machine shop owner."

When I went to replace her, I went to a store that carried ALL the brands. Told the shop owner what I was looking for and that I was just shopping at the time. She said "stay away from the new Singers as they do not last for what you need, and the Berninas.....they are in here constantly for repairs." So I did and I'm pleased with what I have. when you go in, tell them what you need, what you want, and see if they have anything you can afford.if not, ask them to keep an eye out. You may end up not getting anything until AFTER the holidays with the trade-ins that they will be getting this next month. IF they are having a sale now get a "rain check". If they want your business they WILL give you one..might have until the end of Jan to use but it still is better than getting something you won't be happy with.

HTH Butterfly

Funny you mention that, Butterfly. My local dealer quit carrying Singers many years ago because of their major problems and he also quit selling Berninas several years ago. They told me that the Berninas were going the same route as the Singers but at a tremendously higher price. The Berninas just ain't what they used to be- according to them. Now they carry Janomes and that's all. And that's just FINE with me.

Leslie, Missy & The Furbabies in MO.

In my own defense, it saved the guild oodles of money that it couldn't afford, and got a lot of notice (you BET that sewers noticed machine stitching on a booklet!)!!

I thought it looked really cool ... and like I said, it was really oohed and ahhed over. But I NEVER did that again. And I'd sure as heck not do that again, today!!

Hugs!! Connie :) (who thinks that it's REALLY cool that I was able to do that without a single problem!!)

Buyer beware on this. When I bought my Bernina in the early 80's one shop had a Bernina that was set up to run just a little off so it made a terrible sound. They had this 'new' machine with the line of other machines, mostly Pfaff's. I learned later they were a Pfaff dealer and NOT a Bernina one. They had bought the Bernina and set it up to make Bernina's look bad. My point is find out what the dealer is authorized to sell and talk to as many different dealers as possible. Most are going to down play 'the other guys' no matter what they sell. Few dealers sell most of the bigger names.

The last new Singer I dealt with was one my sister got for CHristmas in the early 80's. The thing absolutely would not hold the tension and was unusable. It was a really crummy piece of junk. I have a zillion vintage Singer machines around here but anything from later than the late 50's I just wouldn't bother with.

There are a lot of great mach> Funny you mention that, Butterfly. My local dealer quit carrying Singers

It's going to get interesting down the road a bit----Now Singer, Viking and Pfaff are all one company. I have a 7 yr. old Viking Designer 1 machine that has had all kinds of problems. I've had 2 repair techs tell me it's in good shape for it's age. Excuse me-shouldn't a $5,000 machine last more than 7 years? No more Vikings for me. I'm sure some of them are worth the money, but you'll have a very hard time convincing me. Gen

Like many of the others, I'll have to recommend the Viking. I got a "basic"

180 about 25 yrs. ago and it ran like a champ. When I replaced it with a "newer" Lily some 10? yrs ago, I passed the older 180 down to one of my daughters. I quilt more than regular sewing, but I always took a pair of denim jeans that needed hemming along with me when I tested a machine. (We're on the short side, and I haven't met a pair of jeans that didn't need to be re-hemmed!) If a "New" machine is too expensive, ask your dealer if they have any trade-ins. The dealers usually go over their traded-in models to make sure they run smoothly. You can't beat Vikings -- 'tho I've heard that not too long ago Husquvarna sold it's Viking-related SMs to another company...so I don't know about the brand new models.

This came form a Yahooo group that I'm on--sort of goes along with what I was told by the repairmen. Unbelieveaable! Gen "I can't answer your question, but I have recently had 2 dealers tell me that all TOL machines are only expected to last about 10 years and that is if you sew once or twice a week. Rather sad I think"

I have to agree with you there, Taria. Most dealers want to sell the machines they're set up to sell, and they won't quibble about stretching the truth. I'm on my third Bernina, not because of issues with their dependability or reliability, but because I've loved each one so much that I wanted the next one.

What Sandy said - Sad, but true. I know of a lady in our area who was shopping recently for a new serger. The dealer she talked to doesn't carry BabyLock sergers that have automatic air jet threading. The customer asked the dealer if her brand of sergers had automatic threading. The dealer answered, "No, and you don't want one of those. If they break, they can't be repaired." I really lost respect for this dealer over that incident since I know that statement isn't true.

Donna in Idaho

Here's my two cents, Sherry. I personallywould probably consider the Viking. I've never been disappointed with my approximately 10-year old Lily (David gave it to me as a birthday gift when the 555s first came out, can't remember how long ago that actually was.) Before the Lily I had a basic Huskystar which I also loved.

But before you make any decision, try them both out. Go at a time when you can really sit with the dealer and play with the machine. Listen to the sound of the motor. Take your fabric with you and use the satin stitch and the decorative stitches on both machines. Find out which "drives" more smoothly.

Also, I'd recommend trying out other brands of machines. You may find one or another more inuitive than the rest. (Sort of like test driving a car). There's nothing worse than having the buttons in the wrong place (my trouble with the Pfaffs at the time I got my Viking) or feeling like the "ride" is not smooth. (No offensive to the Bernina people here, but those machines just don't feel right to me.)

Additionally, talk to your dealer about a used machine. New models are coming out now and lots of people will be trading up over the holidays. You may be able to get a better machine with more bells and whistles and still within your price range. A reputable dealer will have her repair person give it a good cleaning and tune-up before she sells it.

Maureen

One other thing I forgot to mention. When you do test drive machines. Take some of your own thread with you too, whatever you're most likely to be using for piecing, applique, etc. You don't necessarily need to take every conceivable thread with you, but I've you're likely to be using C & C or Sulky or whatever and the machine is going to be picky about it, better to know up front.

I have to agree about the old Viking 900 models. I really miss my 990. I traded it in on a Bernina a while ago and wish I hadn't. There is a Viking 960 on ebay now, which was basically a step under the 990. So far it's only $99.

L>From one old fogey to another, you would be much happier with a used, sturdy

Linda PATCHogue, NY