A Neener for those who like big toys- sorta kind of OT

at that age, you'd be surprised how little horsepower came out of a pretty large motor - look for a used 3 to 5 hp motor and run the motor with a VFD and you will be happy - I presume you have a back gear in it.

My lawn mower repairman has one like that in his shop. It looks like it weighs more than my house. I keep expecting it to crunch through the concrete slab and descend into the underworld.

I haven't dug into it yet, but I know there is back gearing in it, as well as a big pail of other gears, which I am guessing are used to manually change the tpi (wild speculation at this point- they could just be spare gears, or even from something else entirely). As noted, there is no exisiting motor, so obtaining a 5hp was my plan, though if I run across a good 3hp for the right price, I may give that a try- I can always use it for something else if it seems to be underpowered.

Since It's got all the belt pully goodies with it, I'm not too concerned about getting one that matches the machine, as it could be almost anywhere (within reason) and does not need to be attached directly to the lathe. A quick search came up with a number of places that still make and sell seamless belts, so using the belt feed shouldn't be a problem.

I'm also somewhat enamored with the idea of making a steam engine for a second power option- not because it would be very practical or particularly efficent, but it would be awfully neat on such an old piece of machinery, and a good project to get to know the tool.

Damn I hate that, have to do it over again :-(

Hi Jesse I typed a whole page it seems (I'm a very slow typist ;-) also) and it went in that black hole again, darn. Anyway I started turning on a similar lathe, just a few feet longer, total length over 12 feet long. My Dad had bought that lathe at a shipyard bankruptcy sale around

1930. It had a 4 or 5 stepped flat belt pulley, it's been a while ;-)), there was a split main shaft, that is a inner and outer that could be locked/unlocked and a secondary shaft with gears on both ends could be cantilevered in to the gears of the main shaft, so you would get another 4 or 5 speeds extra low. If you want to use the old setup, should work just fine, and would also keep everything original, if you're interested in that. They used 2 belts one flipped a half turn and the other one just normal, those would run on 3 side by side pulleys, the center one was narrower than the 2 other ones and it was the driving pulley, the 2 other pulleys are idler pulleys, the belts have a 2 forked (belt mover I'll call them) that sit on a shaft and are adjustable side ways, and there is a handle you could reach that would move the forks both ways, so one way would be forward drive for the lathe and the other way reverse. The original motor that came with the lathe was and still ?? is used (last time that I was there, was a few years ago) it is a 2 HP 3 phase 380 Volt open cage motor. The belt from the motor would run to the main power distributing shafts larger pulley, where the 2 flat belts pulley also was clamped to, (most of the old pulleys where made in 2 halves so you could add or remove them from the long shafts that where commonly used), ours had only the forging hammer connected to it. Changing of carriage speed was by manually changing/exchanging the gears around, the lathe did have automatic feed and cross feed, reason for a couple fixed change gears :-((. If you don't want to use the old setup, you could use a multi-v belt to run on the flat belt pulleys, but you might run to fast by directly going and probably need a jack shaft. Anyway a nice project to work on, good luck with it. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Well, rec.crafts.metalworking also has a good bunch of guys who enjoy stuff like this.

Also, from

try the "Antique Machinery and History" forum... --Glenn Lyford

This one's got something I haven't quite got figured out, though it may be similar to what you're describing- there's a big handle that pulls a ring (maybe the pulleys, but it's still sitting on a trailer

50 miles away, so I can't go check until next weekend when I bring it home...) over a lever on the main drive shaft. When the lever is free, the drive pullies turn easily by hand- when the lever is held down, it still turns relatively easily, but everything seems to slow down. I thought it was a clutch at first, but it must be to run it extra low.

Yeah, I think I'm going to use as much of the old setup as possible, just for the novelty of it if nothing else. So what you're saying is that all three of the steps on the pulley had belts on them? If that's the case, would you flip the second step pulley the opposite way to keep the ratios the same? It was my assumption that the steps worked the same way as on a modern lathe, where you could pick any pair of steps to get a different range of speeds.

Assuming that I don't have a three-phase converter (and that's a real good assumption to make,) what do you think a guy could get away with using a 220v motor? I'd like to avoid investing in a 3-phase setup, at least for now when it'd only be used for one tool. Maybe in a few years if I've got a little extra money or a good opportunity to get a machining center secondhand the 3-ph converter will make more sense.

That explains the bucket of gears- I figured that was what they were for. That should be a bit of goofing around right there to figure out which combinations correspond to various tpi counts. I'm thinking that color-coding the center of the gears might not be a bad idea.

Nah, I think I'll stick with the old setup, since it's still there. Kind of like the oilers it comes with- a guy could probably find zirc fittings that might be easier to work with, but they just don't look as neat as the old brass oilers.

Thanks!

They do? Not to be argumentative, but I've never seen more than one post a month on there when I've looked- and it'e generally an unanswered post from a new guy. Maybe it's just my news server.

Well, you could always look into phase converting. I know it's possible using a second electric motor in some capacity. Just do a google search for "converting to three phase power" and see if you can find a manufacturer or some instructions on how to do it.

I know it's possible because it's been done on farms where they might have equipment that needs 3 phase power but the electic company only supplies single or dual phase.

Jesse the step pulleys (2 of them) have just one belt, and that belt you do move to change speeds.

No the 3 pulleys I meant are the same size and right next to each other, 2 outside ones turn freely on the shaft, centre on is solid to the shaft.

Your lathe have babbit bearings ??, ours had rings hanging in the oil baths that would turn with the shaft, and continually oiled the shaft, the oil would come back through the grooves in the bronze bearings into the oil bath, very good system for slow speed machinery.

If any more questions just ask, I'll help if I can.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Yep, my uncle used to do that in his shop when I was an apprentice knife grinder, but the problem with that is that I will be needing to purchase a motor to begin with, which is not very cheap if I don't find one used, and then I'd still need a second one for the phase conversion along with whatever else needs to go along with that.

Last time I checked, a 5 hp Baldor motor was going for about $500- and a phase convertor can be had for around $700. So, if I was going to go for 3-phase, I may as well spring for the professionally assembled rig- but I just don't have the capital to invest in either two motors or a motor and a phase convertor. That's why I'd rather just stick with a large 220 motor, which will only require a double breaker to get me in business.

Hmm... maybe I *did* have the wrong one- I doubled checked just now, and there are over 130,000 headers. Maybe it was just a temporary problem- it's been a long while since I bothered to check.

used 5 hp 3 phase motor should cost you $35 or so. maybe less. The phase converter I built for my mill (6 hp spindle, 2 hp ways) cost under $10 -- one relay, one capacitor, both surplus. It's one thing to buy new parts for a production run, but if you are building one of an item for yourself, your costs can be dramatically lower.

The phase convertor was under $10? Any chance you have a wiring diagram of some sort you could share with me? If I can do it for under $100, it'd probably be worthwhile- I just don't want to be into thousands of dollars for a tool that is most likely almost 100 years old before I make sure it's working well.

I think you may be right about the used 3-phase motors- they seem to go cheap, probably because of the power supply issue.

I did get it all moved this morning, though- it looked pretty big in the shop it was in, but I think it grew when I put it my shop... :) Going to be a few weeks or months to clean and relubricate it, before I even power it up, but the very nice thing is that a lot of the parts I had thought were rusty are simply very dirty. A quick swipe of a rag on the ways showed that they are still almost mirror bright beneith the grime and cosmoline- aside from a dinged up section about

6" long right below the chuck, it should still be a pretty accurate tool.

My only real concern is the turret- I can't get it to feed with the hand crank or swivel it, but I haven't found as much as a single seized bolt on the thing, so I suspect there's a lever or combination of levers that is preventing me from doing it, rather than any actual problem. I've got my fingers crossed hoping that there will be no need for me to remove it to get it up and running- aside from the fact that it probably weighs 300 pounds, there's a lot of stuff going on under that turret, with the multiple stops and lead screw. It does seem as though the knob that engages the lead screw is stuck, so that may be the only problem.

top posted to annoy those that think it's "unconventional"

1. by "turret" do you mean "spindle"? if yes, check that it's not in back gear
2. there is a UK machinery site that has info on a wide variety of older lathes - I can't remember the url right now, worth looking for
3. there is a link to the schematic on my web page
   formatting link
   - go to the vacuum pumps page, I believe it is the first 3 phase vac pump that has a link to a simple phase converter - it's just a capacitor and one (or two) relays - you are basically making your three phase motor into a capacitor start motor.
4. a small VFD (3 hp or so) is 0 to 0 max refurb or less used -

hope this helps - much more input and knowlege on metalworking stuff on the metalworking newsgroup (and you'll find me there too just to keep annoying you)

Nope, by turret, I mean the hex-head turret where the tailstock would be in a more conventional engine lathe. Basically, it holds up to six tools which rotate into position for each step, and is powered by the lead screw in a manner similar to a cross-slide. Each station on the turret has a stop that protrudes from the back side, which you can use to set the travel- when it hits the stop, the feed reverses. It's kind of a pre-computer mechanical version of CNC.

I think I ran across that, but there was nothing on this particular machine. Very little information about it seems to exist anywhere on-line.

I understand now- I thought you were talking about converting 220 into three-phase power, not converting a three-phase motor into a capacitor start. If I run across an inexpensive three-phase, I'll check into that.

I'm sure I'll find one if I keep looking- things like that always turn up eventually if you keep your eyes open. It'll be a little while before it's ready to be powered up anyhow- I want to make sure it's fully clean and properly lubricated before starting it up. Hopefully, I'll run across anything that might be damaged or potentially unsafe

*before* I've got everything spinning as well that way- there's a lot more to it than my wood lathe!

I just posted the same question, with more details, over there. Hopefully there's an old-timer or two who has fond memories of the machine in question, and knows what's what with it. I got a text book with it as well, and it's very good as far as operating the machine goes, but it's a little light on maintenance and repair- and, it's a general text about a whole range of turret lathes, not specific to the one I've got.

Just a quick followup- I got the turret slide free. Turns out an enterprising rodent had taken up residence between the ways at some point, and the shavings and bits of debris it crammed into the gear on the end of the shaft allowed it to rust just enough to lock it up. Some careful scraping and a bit of oil got it back in service.

Luckily, the turret assembly comes off in sections, so I didn't have to remove the entire thing at once.

So, now everything is working, and it's just a big clean-up job. I'm actually kind of glad it's as old as it is, as the limited features compared to more modern machines is making it a lot easier to figure out by following the gear trains.