Drying Wood in a Vacuum

The various discussions on ways of drying wood prompted me to post this message.

The following article was published in the March 1998 issue of More Woodturning. I authored the article with technical help from Gilbert Brown of Omak, Washington. Gilbert had done considerable experimenting with his process and was trying to market the system with little success. I wrote the article and submitted it to Fine Woodworking. They kept it for a year and then returned it saying that their experts said it would not work. I leave it to the reader to determine whether this might be useful.

I first met Gilbert Brown at the 1993 ?Art in the Park? craft fair at Omak, Washington. Several of the bowls on my table were turned from wet wood and had warped appropriately. Gilbert said, he was working on a project to dry fresh cut wood fast! With his planned system, he said, we wouldn?t have to turn green wood and guess at what its final shape might be. Being a writer, I told him it might make a good article. Since then, we?ve crossed trails several times. Each time we met, he hadn?t perfected his dryer yet. He was still working on it.

Then ?out of the blue? he called me. His project had finally been worked out. His system can dry a kiln full of wet (newly cut) fruit wood to 6 percent moisture content in three to seven days depending upon the thickness of the timber, about the best I?ve heard of is almost a month. This new system uses a low temperature (100 to 150 degrees) and a vacuum pump. Gilbert says, he isn?t going to mass produce these units but will make one up for someone on special order. If interested, you can contact him at: Gilbert Brown, Route 3, Box 336-B, Omak, WA 98841. You can call him at:

509-826-4058. (Note: Gilbert wasn't in extremely good health at the time I wrote this article and he may no longer be able to produce a unit on order.)

The unit that Gilbert has devised uses a two-foot diameter steel tank that is 10 feet long as his vacuum chamber. One end of the tank has a door that can be opened for loading and unloading the chamber. The door is equipped with a small Plexiglass window so that the wood can be viewed during the drying operation. A light bulb is also installed in the tank to assist in this.

The vacuum tank is mounted inside a wooden box with an air chamber between the tank and the sides of the box. The walls of the box are one to two feet thick with sawdust used as a filler and for insulation. A tube type thermometer is used to measure temperature within the vacuum chamber. Finally, a vacuum is pulled; a reading of 15 on the gauge is adequate.

When loaded with wet wood that has been brought up to temperature, beads of water will appear on the ends of the boards about six minutes after the vacuum is established. Apparently, the moisture is removed from the wood along the channels that the moisture moved in when the tree was alive. You don?t get to view what?s going on for very long before the window is fully fogged with moisture.

Gilbert has been making lumber from fruit wood stumps. He says, a cherry wood stump that is three feet long and about 16 inches in diameter weighs about

300 pounds. Such a stump will produce about three gallons of water in three days. This water collects in the bottom of the tank. He has installed a drain valve in the bottom of the vacuum tank so that the water can be removed and saved in another smaller tank without losing the vacuum.

This dryer was developed to quickly dry fruit wood from the orchards around Omak, Washington to produce cabinet grade lumber at the lowest possible cost. Gilbert uses the stumps that regular mills leave behind. Here, much of the figure in the tree exists so that really fine wood can be obtained from a part of the tree that would otherwise be burned. Of course, this process doesn?t yield long pieces of timber, but most cabinets don?t need very long pieces. Gilbert also makes up fancy flooring from this wood by laminating the pieces to form larger boards with an appropriate pattern.

Fruit woods will twist a good deal during this fast drying process, unless they are clamped down while drying. Other woods seem to be alright, he says. Gilbert described a typical load of fruit wood to be boards that are about one inch thick, either trimmed up or with the bark left on. The boards are stacked on a 1/4 inch metal plate. They are then clamped down to the plate to hold them in position while they dry. Once dry, Gilbert says, the boards are OK. Wax sealer on the ends of the boards will help to keep them from cracking.

Currently, I have quite a bit of wood on the shelf that was cut six months to two years ago that still isn?t ready to turn. I?m waiting for it to air dry at about one inch per year. I can see how a small kiln of this type that would hold a few green wood bowl blanks or several small pieces for other turning projects would be very useful. I turn small pieces such as wine bottle stoppers and spinner tops. These must be dry before you turn them. A small kiln with a vacuum tank about the size of a five gallon bucket, which wouldn?t take up too much space in my shop, would work well for me. I could dry more wood with such a small unit than I have time to turn.

Editor?s Note: This article was written for Fine Woodworking in cooperation with Gilbert. After almost a year, Fine Woodworking returned the article, saying that the ?experts? they had contacted said the system wouldn?t work. I don?t make any claims about Gilberts system, but I believe he is honest and that he has worked out a system that will dry wood quickly. I have held off publishing this in More Woodturning in hopes that I could find a publication with larger circulation to spread the word about this system. Anyone wishing to investigate this further should contact Gilbert Brown directly at the address given above. The way he talked, he would be willing to make up systems of virtually any size.

Fred Holder

Reply to
Fred Holder
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Fred:

Interesting.... but several thoughts come to mind...

The heat in the box around the vacuum chamber may heat the walls of the chamber. Heat can move via convection or conduction. The problem is, that with no (or very little) air in the chamber, convection cannot take place. So, conduction is the only way of transferring the heat to the wood. Since the wood is minimally in contact with the chamber, I doubt that the heat can have any effect at all.

Vacuum kilns are a proven technology. But, they rely on heating blankets in contact with each and every piece of wood. Also, if the wood is thick, the surface is going to dry much faster than the core leading to all sorts of problems.

When the pressure is lowered, the boiling point of water is lowered -- that 212F is at a standard pressure only. Vacuum kilns work by raising the temperature and lowering the pressure so as to change the water in the wood to vapor which passes through the cell walls more easily than water.

I tend to think that Fine Woodworking is right.

Bill

Fred Holder wrote:

Reply to
Bill Rubenstein

What troubles me is that the window fogs up, and water collects on the bottom of the chamber. If the vacuum is causing the water to evaporate, why doesn't it evaporate from the areas outside the wood? If the system is working, it must be some other mechanism than vacuum drying.

Reply to
Leo Lichtman

Certainly operating it at a minimal vacuum ("15", probably 15 inches of mercury, or about 1/2 atmosphere - a very low vacuum indeed) offers some room for doubt about its method of operation. The standing water (there is mention of removing it) would indicate that the water in the wood is not boiling off, so the only means I can guess at for the expulsion of this water from the wood would be small gas bubbles in the pores driving (free) water out the pores. That would leave the bound water behind. Fogging is pretty much a given, as the thing will be operating at 100% humidity for whatever pressure and temperature it's running at. On the other hand, at 1/2 an atmosphere, heat (mentioned in another reply) will convect quite well, there being very little vacuum insulation effect at that high a pressure.

With a better vacuum heat is not really needed, as water will boil at and below room temperature, and if the wood self-cools (due to boiling of water in it) to below freezing, water will sublime out of the ice - freeze drying (intentional freeze drying starts with freezing the object to be dried). I believe that some of the commercial kilns (or at least a research project test kiln of commercial size I've read about) have a more effective means (than contact blankets) of providing heat in vacuum to improve cycle times, however - microwaves.

Most of the degrade issues of any drying process remain on the table with vacuum drying, as I see it; this may be one reason for choosing such a low level of vacuum, as extreme speed of drying can aggravate degrade. Also, heat can improve some degrade issues by allowing the wood to bend plastically - so if it's restrained flat and heated sufficiently (not very applicable to bowls, I'm afraid) it can relieve stresses that might tend to twist or cup it, and set flat. Also, sufficient heat to kill bugs is a good thing.

Reply to
Ecnerwal

Well, I'm going with the cheeseheads at FPL. It's relative humidity and Raoult's law all the way. Raising the temperature of the air in the chamber effectively lowers the relative humidity, pulling a vacuum allows escape of water to air with application of less energy in the form of heat. Combination is a quick way to get rid of the unbound water, that's for sure.

For the individual who said that cold air is a low humidity environment - half correct. Low _absolute_ humidity, high _relative_ humidity. With Raoult's law, the vapor pressure over the wood will dictate how much water can leave and at what rate. At saturation - the dewpoint - none can leave. That's why you have to continue to remove the humid air whether in a standard kiln, vacuum kiln, or slowly through a barrier like a paper bag, anchorseal or news paper.

Reply to
George

Fred, Could FW have returned the article because it had already been published, instead of for technical reasons? Dan

Reply to
Dan Bollinger

Dan, I think that they would have said so had the information already been published. I believe that the experts that they contacted, who ever they may have been, simply felt that the process would not work. If I had had room in my shop for a small version of his kiln, I would have had him make one for me to try myself.

If I understood him correctly. His kiln was sealed so that he did not have to run a vacuum pump continuously. He simply pulled 15 inches of vacuum in the chamber and applied a small amount of heat. The pressure in the wood then pushed out the water and it settled into the bottom of his tank where he could drain off the water. He insulated the tank to keep from losing his heat so that he could run this system any time of the year.

Since his system was somewhat radical in relation to the current thinking, everyone, who was considered an expert, felt that it could not possibly work.

I think it is a bit like Dave Smith's alcohol drying method. It is claimed by many that this could not possibly work. I happen to know that it does work through our own experiments with it on woods like madrone, which was dry enough to final turn in seven days after overnight soaking in alcohol.

Gilbert Brown did not have enough money to really push his system; hence, it was never really given a fair trial I suspect.

Fred Holder

Reply to
Fred Holder

"Fred Holder" wrote: (clip) If I understood him correctly. His kiln was sealed so that he did not have to run a vacuum pump continuously. He simply pulled 15 inches of vacuum in the chamber and applied a small amount of heat. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you want to vacuum dry something effectively, you must run the pump continuously. Otherwise, the partial pressure of the moisture in the chamber rises to the equilibrium vapor pressure for that temperature, and no further water is removed. Your supposition that the pressure in the wood pushes out the liquid water doesn't sit well with me. Water is essentially incompressible. Pulling a vacuum on the outside of the wood would be rewarded with an infinitesimal flow of liquid, and then the internal pressure would drop to match the chamber pressure.

Reply to
Leo Lichtman

I think you are both right. It is possible that internal gases expand and physically push the water out. I'm sure that a good portion of water would be extracted, but eventually, it will reach equilibrium. As pressure decreases (as in pulling a vacuum) water evaporates and may even boil. As it does so heat is removed and the remaining water can freeze. I suspect this may be the reason this and other vacuum dryers add heat. Even freeze dryers have heated shelves. Too see this effect, find a phase diagram that is graphed below one atomosphere.

Water boils at about 27" Hg at room temperature.

I'm doing a little test right now; put a green sapling sample in a vacuum tank at 15".

Dan

Reply to
Dan Bollinger

My sense is whatever he did is not exactly explained by the article, since you guys don't seem to understand the thermodynamics of what's happening, so it probably reads like an amateur science experiment without adequate explanation, and the way it was described it actually wouldn't work, and that's why it was rejected. Obviously I haven't read it, so I don't know. There may also be temperature gradients in the thing that you aren't aware of and THAT's the only thing that makes it work.

For example, the fog on window makes sense because the window is likely a path for heat to escape, and being a lower temperature, it would condense drops, esp when the wood's giving off a lot of water.

I've dried metal things in vacuum ovens a lot in the past...it's common practice in aerospace, and fog happens. We usu. keep the pump on, but sometimes pressure cycling can remove moisture a bit faster, (and maybe transfer heat convectively to the inner parts faster?). What kind of heat supply? Sun lamp? Heater blankets or tape?

I'd think a cold trap for condensing moisture between the oven and the pump would make sense, cycle regularly to remove water from it, and maybe that's sort of what you've got and just don't know it.

Reply to
Mark Fitzsimmons

Leo:

Well, this discussion has effectively separated the men from the boys when it comes to a science and engineering background. My degrees are in music (from a conservatory, yet) so I'm one of the boys.

My experience with a vacuum kiln was some years ago (late 90s) and it was built and sold by Woodmizer. It appears as if they are no longer selling it and that, in my opinion, is no loss. We tried to use it for drying exotics and blew up thousands of dollars of wood before it was returned to Woodmizer.

This kiln DID use electric blankets between the layers and drying was most uneven -- wet boards next to dry ones. I have heard of kilns which use microwave heating as stated in a prior message in this thread.

The Woodmizer did not run the pump all the time. They had a vacuum gauge and a microcomputer which cycled the pump and maintained the desired vacuum. To put their computer technology in perspective, as I remember, the microcomputer was a 6502 for those who are old enough to remember that one -- I am.

They pumped the water out through the vacuum pump and we collected it in a bucket.

Bill

Leo Lichtman wrote:

Reply to
Bill Rubenstein

Well, you can always study on this very screen. I keep posting it over and over, but the place to start is

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where you may download the Wood Handbook and read how wood really dries. Thousands of years of experience, millions of dollars of documented research available at the click of a mouse. You may even elect to go directly to the drying literature through the search function. Or, you may chose to believe rather than explore. Lot of individual comfort in faith, where snake oil and spirit messages become panaceas and prophecies. It's an uncomfortable thing to study, because in the process you discover that you don't know or understand some things well enough, which you remedy with further study, only to discover there are other things you don't know .... Beware the halo effect.

Reply to
George

Bill,

Agreed but practical experience like Fred's with alcohol seems hard to ignore.

Do you mean literally ruptured? Man, would that be a bummer. At a high vacuum I could see that happening.

Earlier comment about 27" at room tempeature fits my experience with air conditioning evacuation at closer to 29". Moisture/vapor exhausts through the pump. Shutting off the pump and watching for a drop is a leak test procedure. System's sealing quality probably a lot higher than a large homemade system.

Reply to
Tom Nie

Reply to
Mark Fitzsimmons

Tom:

When I used the term 'blow up' I didn't mean literally. We ended up with unsaleable wood due to water pockets, uneven drying, checking... A real mess.

Bill

Tom Nie wrote:

Reply to
Bill Rubenstein

OK, so I stick my blank in the Hoover, put the Hoover in the Frigidaire, put the Frigidaire in the oven, set the oven on a scale to see when weight loss stops. What temp do I set the oven at?

Reply to
Steve A

350F
Reply to
Lobby Dosser

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