I found a decent deal at the local RONA today, picked up the Delta Midi lathe for CDN $245.. the only tool I really didn't have, but thought it was a good deal.. and the idea of making pens intrigues me.. went to Lee Valley and bought the kits, the reams, CA glue, all that fun stuff.
So I got home, and I set it up today, (after cleaning alot of grease off of it) and it seems to run fine. Put a piece of walnut in it, and gave er a try.
After the chips settled, I found I ran into a few questions.
When I mount the wood in the lathe, how much 'pressure' do you put on the tailstock.. how hard do I screw it in?
After getting it rounded off, I noticed that:
1: the tailstock head spins slowly with the piece, but not at the same speed.. is that normal?
2: the piece oscillates ever so little.. If I back off the tailstock head a bit, the tailstock pin stops turning, & the oscillating stops. Is that normal?
3: If I line up the point of the headstock, and the point on the tailstock, the don't line up perfectly.. (less than 1 mm diff). Does this really matter?
You clearly do not have much in the way of book-learning on the subject of turning and no experience. Did it occur to you that while you are experimenting with this and that, the blank could become a projectile and leave the lathe in an unpredictable angle at a rather high rate of speed?
You need to get a few books or somebody who has a clue to give you a little help before you hurt yourself.
When using a live center in the tailstock, it should rotate at the same speed as your work piece.
The headstock and tailstock should be in alignment. If you have trouble adjusting the alignment by eye, you can buy a morse taper alignment tool (a straight shaft with #2 morse taper on each end) for about $17 US or have an experienced turner make one for you out of wood.
Your workpiece should not oscillate unless you are intentionally doing offcenter turning.
Tailstock pressure should be enough to solidly hold the workpiece without deforming the workpiece. For pens and smaller pieces, it doesn't take a lot of pressure. If you put too much pressure on your pen mandrel you will get deflection.
I suspect that your message is addressed to me although it is difficult to know. If that is the case...
I believe that if you knew me, on balance, you would find out you were wrong about me. But, there are some situations which seem to me to be so critical that there is no time for tact. My intent was to bring to the original poster the seriousness of the situation and if I offended some (or offended him), so be it.
Hi Mike, Your questions are not unusual and have been discussed here many times. There are many facets to discuss re your questions, but they should remain on hold at this stage of your new addiction. The suggestions and warnings were made in friendly but firm concern by people who welcome you here. Please join us and enjoy rcw .... responsibly!
Brian Clifford's e-book, "Introduction to woodturning" is free, available and authoritative. Someone will provide the URL. Study it before you turn your lathe back on! If I am undiplomatic or tactless, so be it if I get your attention. Unlike most of your machine tools, your new lathe's hazards are not all self evident and can threaten eye, limb, lung, and life. It's all happened before and will happen again. Our aim is to not let it happen to you.
No. Tighten it just until they turn at the same speed.
Note: Don't use tailstock pressure to embed the drive center into the wood. Examples of how to do it right:
Remove the drive center and hammer it into the wood with a mallet, then replace it in the lathe.
Use a bandsaw to cut an X or + in the end of the wood, perhaps pre-drilling a small center hole, so that the center catches without pressure.
pre-drill a hole narrow enough that the center's wings *almost* touch the wood. Install the wood with the tail center lightly touching. Hold the wood and turn on the lathe; the drive center spins and the wood just sits there. Gradually tighten the tail center until the drive center starts cutting (yes, cutting) the end of the wood. This gives you a perfectly flat surface, which requires less pressure to grab. Now, let go of the wood and tighten the tail center a little more.
In all cases, pre-drilling a small hole is useful for smaller blanks, where the splitting action of the center might split the blank. Or, get a center with a spring-loaded point.
No. If you press *too* hard with the tailstock, you could bow the wood, which is bad.
Yes. They should be so close you can't see any deviation.
"MikeMac" wrote: (clip) 3: If I line up the point of the headstock, and the point on the tailstock, the don't line up perfectly.. (less than 1 mm diff). Does this really matter? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The standard answer is that it does matter. It does not always matter all that much. For example, if you are turning a long spindle between centers, a little error in tailstock alignment produces a slight angle to the work axis. On a metal lathe, this would produce a taper. On a wood lathe, since the tools are hand-held, the turner simply turns to the correct diameter for the full length using eyes and calipers. The spur drive acts as a little U-joint, and you probably would never notice the difference'
On the other hand, suppose you are holding a bowl blank on a faceplate, or in a chuck, and you bring up the tailstock for extra support (and safety.) It the tailstock is off center, something will have to give. In a chuck, the wood will probably start slipping. On a faceplate, the screws could work loose. Or the tailstock will flex. None of this is good.
Since you are turning pens, you must be using one of those mandrels that plugs into the Morse taper of the spindle. Running with the tailstock end 1 mm off will probably cause the mandrel to bow. This could result in a little whipping action, which will make bad pens. Then again, if you don't use too much tailstock pressure, you may be able to get it to run smoothly, and you're on your way.
Oh, yes--just because you find a 1 mm misalignment at close contact spindle to tailstock, it could be different at other places on the ways. I would try it and see what happens.
At the risk of being ostracized from the community, I'll take exception with some of the responses given. Turning is not like flying an airplane--you are not almost certainly doomed if you take one off without any instruction. Yes, there are some risks, just as there are with any machinery. But, in my opinion, the lathe is nowhere near as risky as a table saw, for example, or any of a number of tools that many people have taken up safely with little or no instruction.
I think sometimes, we who have been "tooling around" for a while and have seen most of the bad scrapes one can get into tend to think worst case scenario for every newcomer the first time on a tool. But of all the tools in my shop, I'd probably be most comfortable starting a newcomer out on a lathe than the rest.
I, for one, have never had a lick of instruction on a single power tool. I have, however, read a LOT of books, watched a lot of DIY TV, and have seen Norm Abram's show perhaps more than anyone. And I have a gift for self teaching. So, I may not be a good example of the "if-I-can-do-it, anyone-can" school of thought.
Actually, I have to mention I did go to a woodworking class at a local high school once. I was having trouble with the skew chisel on my (homemade) lathe, so I thought I would get some larnin' from a real teacher. I had to suffer through two weeks (one night a week) of safety instructions and guidance to less experienced wooddorkers planning on building Philadelphia highboys and such, before the instructor got around to me.
I told him I was interested in learning about the lathe. So he took me over to the big Powermatic, chucked up a piece of wood, and started to scrape. I thought, "what a load of crap--I already know how to scrape." I realized I knew more than he did and never went back.
Get a book to learn some fundamentals. Even I can't do stuff without fundamentals. But if you have any ability to self teach at all, you can certainly learn to do good work on the lathe.
By the way, with regard to all the dire warnings you've been given, remember, good decisions come from experience, and a lot of experience comes from bad decisions. There's not one of those guys that hasn't had a piece of wood thrown at them--exactly what they're trying to help you avoid. You can't, completely, so go ahead with your adventure.
Many woodturners think of their craft as some sort of rocket science, with the same risks.
I think a table saw or handheld router is much more dangerous than a typical lathe. That is, unless you turn while wearing a loose necktie and have long hair that's not tied back! If the OP is really nervous (especially after this thread) he or she might want to look into one of those "clutch" chucks that stops driving the work if it catches solidly enough.
I am by no means an accomplished turner. I'm only interested in turning enough to make the odd tool handle or furniture replacement part, so I don't practice near enough to approach what a real turner can do. I taught myself from the Raffan book on a Jet Mini with bed extension. As in most woodworking, half the battle is sharpening the tools correctly. A Wolverine Jig and some good wheels solved that for me.
Even "Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking" covers the very basics of turning.
Turning safely is easy, even if learning destroys a bunch of poplar. Getting really good, especially at duplicate parts is where lots of practice and serious, hands-on instruction become necessary.
Very helpful suggestion, EBD.. I'm sure that it helped the OP a lot..
I'd suggest that the OP visit the sites of a few members here, especially Darrell Feltmate's site at:
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I'm self taught, and it took me 3 years of hard work to unlearn all the bad/dangerous/expensive habits that I'd learned..
There's tons of free help on the web for any level turner that wants to learn and have fun..
Quick answer... the tailstock, if it has a "live center", should be turning at the same speed as the work... I sort of go by feel, but try tightening it while the lathe is running.. put enough pressure on the tail stock to keep the wood up to speed but not bind or burn it.. back off a bit if the lathe is slowed by the tailstock..
Several places sell "Safety Centers" that will not grab if you catch the wood with the chisel.. might be a good investment..
I'm hoping that since you have a well setup shop, you have a face shield... if not please Get one... can't turn much if you don't have eyes left..
How is top posting convenient?!?!? I had to scroll all the way down to the bottom of your message to see what you were replying to, then scroll back up to read your post. While it didn't kill me, it certainly wasn't convenient. :)
As long as there are people who refuse to trim each of the gazillion previous poster's replies from their their own you will never be able to present an argument defending bottom posting as preferable to top posting. Not saying you're one of them, but bottom posters seem blindly adamant when it comes condemning top posting while failing to themselves edit.
This reply, however, is a perfect example of how bottom posting is acceptable. Compare it to thousands of daily egregious examples to the contrary.
Okay, so maybe it was for my convenience. I don't have a problem with it.
MikeMac wrote:> After getting it rounded off, I noticed that:
It sounds like you're turning a long thin spindle. When the L/D gets over about 15 the center of the spindle starts to whip (like a jumprope--first dynamic mode of instability). to put more pressure (until your live center turns at the same speed as the wood, as previously mentioned) you will increase this vibration. To turn long thin spindles like this you have to strike a happy medium by doing one or more of the following, and it gets harder the longer your spindle becomes:
a. make it so the tailstock is slightly looser, but this isn't the best choice, as your piece will then vibrate on the spindle cone and cause a rough surface.
b. hold the spindle steady as you turn, either with your hand, as many old style turners do, or using a steady rest. The steady rest takes a lot more time, and it's often easier to use the hand that is at the tip of the tool to kind of hold the piece steady as it spins. The way many turners do this, they put their left thumb on the tool tip and the four pads of fingers rest on the spinning spindle. This really is only helpful and safe once the wood is close to round, or at least octagonal with rounded corners from your first tool pass.
Roughing out the spindle can be made easier by starting with a straight tool edge and scraping away a few mm at a time, making each cut round before you take off the next few mm. Trying to use a cutting action with a nonround part is going to take longer and be more frustrating when you're just beginning.
c. I have had great success turning long spindles (L/D>30) with a short, very low angle hand plane held in one hand and the second hand on the opposite side of the spindle, holding only the flat of my hand.
Again, you should start with a scraper to make the whole thing round before you try cutting with a plane, and use the plane only to make it smooth and cut a fair, straight line. Using a plane, press the shoe flat against the cylinder to be cut, blade edge perpendicular to the axis of rotation so it's not cutting and slowly change the angle of the plane until it just takes off the smallest finest curl of wood, and then be patient. I find the best angle is around 20-45 degrees from perpendicular. Take many passes like this and you can get a glassy smooth finish as good as a skew or better, but with less vibration because the piece is supported.
When I use a hand plane for long spindles, I don't use a tool rest. It seems like it will help you support the plane, but I think it adds a high risk of seriously pinching fingers between the wood and the tool rest.
Leo's answer is correct on this. More info: some lathes have adjustments for that problem. Mine only has a side to side adjustment, so if they're off up and down, I have to shim the headstock until they're the same height.
Less than a mm, you'll never notice the diff unless you're turning with a geared & indexed tool rest. If I get it under 1/8" (2-3 mm) I'm happy.
You have to do that once per thread. Bottom posting forces you to scroll through EVERY post to get past the stuff you've already read. Waste your time once or over and over again?
Ya just gotta love that any and all part... :-) Kinda like the part of my job description that says "and other duties as assigned"...
Ah the faithful and the flighty you get em all on here. One of my favorites is the on going battle of Top post/bottom post... Just a bit more entertaining than the Church of "I hate Crapsman"....
But enough of that... I'm a lathe dabbler myself and I've learned thru trial and error and input from here and other sources. Any time you pick up a new tool it does help to seek advice from somebody who's done it. The posts above cover anything I could share from my limited book o knowledge.
One thing I'll rehash is the face shield (and you may already have one and use it faithfully) but we can never cover safety enough. That and loose shirts or hair. I was wearing a long sleeve shirt one winter day with the cuffs open and loose while working on the lathe. Let's just say it was almost an educational experience.
Have fun, try different stuff, and don't be afraid to ask for help on the rec... You just have to ignore the crankier ones occasionally... ;-)
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