Question about turning small details

Pointed gouge. Means ears waaaay back, drop at the sides almost vertical. Enter with the sharp nose, then drop the handle and roll to shear scrape.

Narrower nose and more consistent angle of the bevel makes it less grabby than a fingernail pattern.

I would use a 1/8" Oland tool with the sides ground back. A bit of rotation allows a shear cut at the end to give a good sanding surface.

Depending on the wood, I use my 1/4 bowl gouge (yup... that is what they call it!) with the ears ground back, but a round point on it. It is easy to put a point on that thing and you wind up with a million tiny grooves. This only works well if the wood isn't too prone to tear out.

However, go to Darrell's site and check out his Oland tools. I am experimenting with the concept/shape/design of the bits, and some of them are pretty cool, and in some configurations on certain woods they leave a surface smooth enough to finish sand.

The one I am experimenting with now is a 3/16" round bit with a 60 degree bevel on it, and cut across the top at about 5 degrees to give a negative rake. Because the bite is so small using it as a spindle gouge, it cuts the tough stuff like butter and leaves a great surface behind. Once correctly ground, the 5% cobalt bit takes a few swipes with the stone and it is good as new. It never really feels sharp... but the steel wool like shavings tell me I am doing OK.

And with the same bit, you can end grain hollow so fast it will scare you. It is perfect for my seasonal candle/oil lamp business since I can just jam the thing in the wood to cut out for the candle fit ups. Each candle fit up requires fitting to one lamp as they are all different sizes, but since it only has to be about 3/4" deep, this is the ticket.

I am thinking that if you are making a bunch of your bowls you might want to look into making something similar, and dedicate your tool or at least the specific bit to the job.

Just a thought.

Robert

Darrell,

Help me with where there's an Oland tool on your website. Could be I looked at it and didn't know what I was looking at.

Robert, thanks for the details in your post.

Merry Christmas TomNie

I'm not Darrell, but here goes...

Greg G.

Well, I messed around with this challenge a bit yesterday. For you who are Masters of the Black Art of hand grinding fine profiles, excuse the repetition of an exhausted subject. It's all new to me...

I used a strip of 7 ply plywood, and a scrap of maple to test the various grinds. I figure if it cuts these examples, an actual piece should present no new problems.

The 1/4" gouge is more shallow than I had hoped, and cutting a smooth round on the end is a real PITA. It's far too easy to end up with a ragged, too-long finger when trying to obtain an effective side grind. Treating the sides/edges first, then moving to blend with the tip seems most effective. I think I'm going to try and reduce the bevel a bit more as well. I've developed an interesting combination rotating, sweeping, and rising movement for sharpening this blasted thing...

One of these days, I'm going to have to buy a book on the subject. Did I mention how difficult it is to get a nice smooth, rounded end?

FWIW,

Greg G.

Thanks, George, I used your info, along with other respondents', to obtain a manageable grind. See addendum post for details if you're interested.

Greg G.

I fumbled around your site and found the info on the Oland tool. I have a Termite handle that seems natural for a bit holder. Tried it out (sorta) with a Sorby HM scraper bit, and it seemed very controllable, but the grind on the scraper wasn't optimal.

I need to come up with a source for HSS, without the ususal "minimum order, we don't stock that, never heard of that" routine. Probably wouldn't use more than 2 feet of stock in a lifetime.

Thanks, Darrell.

Greg G.

Couldn't find a bowl gouge that small. Rockler, Highland Hardware, Woodcraft, nothing. (Perhaps as part of a mini-turning set or something...) I have a 3/8, but it's far too big.

I did, and experimented briefly with the idea. Have no HSS handy, and if I have to invest time into it, we're not using soft steel.

Heck, I was amazed at the tiny little 3 foot long shavings I got from that kiln dried segmented dish. The glue held together, even at that resolution. Looked like a pile of Walnut brown steel wool. I stretched a couple of the Maple sections out lengthwise, and they exceeded 4 feet. Way Cool!

It would be interesting to see a pictorial representation of your tool and grind. Uh... Let me rephrase that...

These types of details are pretty common, so I would probably want a tool dedicated to the task. I was quite surprised at being unable to find a detail gouge/tool designed expressly for this purpose.

Thanks for all the info, Robert.

Greg G.

Greg try Busy Bee Tools for the HSS. Get HSS tool bits that they use in the metal turning industry. They come in various square section bits about 2 1/2" long. Busy Bee will sell you one or fifty without breaking a sweat. If you are in the States try Enco. I think the urls are

Greg... I bought these:

You can make a set of tips in whatever shapes you like, or just regrind what you need and change bits when you're down to a stub..

I ended up making 3 Oland tools so that I can either have 3 different grinds to work with, or my "late night stealth" mode, where they're all a general grind but I can go a LONG time without running the grinder or sander and pissing off the neighbors..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Greg... I'm replying to my own post here... lol

I had a couple of large bowls to turn last night and decided to use the Termite handle for an Oland bit... I used the bench grinder to roughly round one end of the 1/4 x 1/4" HSS stock to a slightly loose fit on the termite handle and ground the other end as normal.. worked very well with good control, once I got used to the LONG handle.. Try it, you'll like it, and it's a "cheap" way to get as lot more use out of the termite... or at least the handle..

BTW: Tried the Termite a little last night, not for end grain, but on the pine bowl blank that I was hogging out (cross grain) Kind of fun if you're careful, and an awfully clean cut... looks like a fun addition to the chisels!

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I talk to myself all the time. No one else listens... ;-)

I have - and it holds promise - for a handle... ;-) When I looked at the link that Darrell posted, the first thing I did was run to the garage and grab the termite handle so that I could locate something laying in a drawer that would work as a bit. Now I just have to get the proper steel to make a few _real_ bits. I'm thinking that the actual Oland Tool that Highland Hardware sells uses a 1/4" round back bit. I could pick one of those up quick for $3.00. And of course, the Sorby HM bit fit as well - but I don't know where to get a replacement.

I bought it originally to endgrain hollow a spalted birch log. Nothing else would cut it without ripping out large chunks of the semi-rotten wood. It's a little grabby, but not bad as long as you leave a lip to ride in on, but as a touch-up tool it blows.

I've not used it a whole lot, and for what it cost, I guess I should. But like most categories of tools, sometimes ya just gotta have one.

Thanks,

Greg G.

Greg I use hook tools instead of the Termite. I ma not sure what a hook costs but I think with the cost of propane to make them, 10 cents each? No more certainly. I jsut turned an end grain apple bowl from the but end of the log with a hook tool. As soon as I get the final finsih on it I will post a picture.

Thanks, I'll look into this as well. I'm not a big fan of throwing money at overly complicated solutions. Happen to know of a page showing various grinds on the Oland bits? I made up a few bits from 1/8" HSS and tried them out:

TIA,

Greg G.

Greg The round tip is good but I would bring the angle sharper, to 45 for faceplate and up to 60 for spindle turning. I will put some pictures on my site. For the jig I use, check my site under sharpening.

Sure , Tom - I have pictures. I have pictures of tools, furniture, birds, piles of wood shavings, DIY electronics, the re-roofing job, big rocks in Arizona, lepidoptera, etc. ;-) (Just yanking your chain...)

Here's one to get you started: (This one makes my walls and skin crawl...)

Greg G.

Thanks for the info. I considered building a similar sharpening jig, but instead developed a free-hand technique that works perfectly fine for me with standard lathe tools.

While grinding this 1/8" tip into various forms, the tip demonstrated a tendency to want to catch on the grinding wheel, or bounce, which is not a particularly desirable occurrence. Dressing the wheel didn't help and additionally, the wheel cuts so fast that it is difficult to maintain a really smooth, rounded edge. I use a 120G 8" white wheel. That's why I was considering a DP/sanding jig - for a slower, more controllable cut.

The bevel is not acute enough, but since I have a total of 15 minutes into this so far, it worked well enough to deduce that it should work well when refined, and the behavior of the tool is predictable.

Wasn't sure whether to emulate the angles of a gouge, or if this was an entirely new grinding paradigm. ;-) Looked around the web at a few sites, but no one showed good close-ups of their favorite grinds.

Thanks,

Greg G.