Hi everyone, especially the LDDers, I have a question.
What colour (I'm in Oz - color gives me spelling errors :-) is the dishwashing detergent that you use for the LDD technique?
I've recently tried it out, and it has worked fine for me so far, but the only LDD I could get in bulk is dark green (nice Apple scent :-) and it appears to me that it's staining the wood an icky green colour :-( When I apply the wax finish, the wood doesn't look as nice as I'm expecting.
So, I ask if anyone else has this problem with the wood changing colour (for the worse) through the use of LDD?
If not, what colour is the LDD you use?
Thanks for and input, and keep up the ongoing discussions - I enjoy reaeding 'em :-)
The LDD I use comes from a warehouse chain called Costco, and the color is a sort of pale orange... Nothing that will interfere with normal wood coloring, particularly in the dilutions I use.
However, I did find that the color fades to a very light sandy tan in about 60 days if you leave a gallon of it outside in the sun. We moved from the old house to a rental while we build our new house, and one got left outside for awhile... I wasn't all that surprised it faded in the sun, but the extent was quite interesting.
Perhaps you can leave a few bottles of it out in the sun for a while, so the coloring/dye in it fades before you use it?
Hi, Who! I have heard this complaint before, specifically with the green LDD. I have suggested that the LDD to use is the the gold, orange, or yellow. I have tried individual types of wood samples with the LDD and could not mark any change in wood color after they dried at full strength. If there is a any color to the wood, it is primarily turned or sanded off prior to the finish coat being applied. Don't know about the effects of UVA exposure; however, I would be somewhat concerned that the effect might diminish the characteristic action of the LDD in regards to preventing splitting or warping. HTH,
Wou Who! In all candour, it occoured to me that I favour a rubour colour in ordour to avoid the dolour of palloured tournings. Arrourgh! this is bad humour. Plounk!
I am still experimenting with LDD and alcohol baths. I have noticed that both methods draw color out of the wood. My amber LDD is now dark. The alcohol was a nice burgundy color after the first pieces of Madrone went in. I have soaked black and English walnut, big leaf maple, cherry, and Madrone. Results are pretty much the same except that the LDD bowls are easier to sand. The alcohol is less messy and slimy, and easier to drain off. I was wondering about glycerine as a bath. I was/am considering adding the alcohol to the LDD. The jury is still out for me. I am considering going back to just drying the blanks on a shelf in the shop. No mess, no fuss, and the same success rates. I do turn to finish thickness, and then sand out the warped blanks. I haven't yet tried the boiling methods. robo hippy
Rick.. we had an interesting sort of experience with Costco/kirkland "Body Wash" for the shower.... large plastic pump bottle of pretty (dark) blue stuff... It says something on the container about sunlight possibly changing the color...
Since it comes in a 2-pack, my wife put one in the shower and set the other on the window sill in the bathroom... a few weeks later she noticed that it had turned perfectly clear... so clear that she thought that it had leaked and was empty.. *g*
OTOH, in my 2 series of LDD attempts, the yellow stuff left a slight greenish-yellow tint on the wood, and the clear LDD from "smart & final" turned BLACK when you soaked wood in it!
You're already using glycerine. It's the skin softener (humectant) added to dish detergent.
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Last picture in the album to see how I handle mine. These are the ones I haven't put on the shelf yet. No soaks, no coats, no bags, just ~65% relative humidity at eye level. The hard maple cut 30 days ago is already under 15% MC, but won't be re turned for quite a while, because I have hard maple left from 2003's delivery. I was getting low on cherry, which is why it's nice to have the log I used and about six feet of usable wood left to cut on another BTW, no checks showing. Basements are great. Before I had a basement, I had to use a couple of transmitter crates.
Bravo for your experimenting. The color of the LDD solution does change as a result of drawing out lignins from the wood, also the bark if you are turning natural edged bowls may well dye the formerly yellow/amber/orange a dark black or brown colour. I have not noticed any transfer of this to the various types of wood that I have processed through there. Those who complain about the "mess," are just not handling it properly. Alcohol was added to the mix also, earlier on and it was determined not to have any additional beneficient results. I have never tried straight alcohol baths. Boiling??? And you talk about a mess and a fuss!!!*G*
I use LDD in a different manner than most people. I don't use it during turning, as when I turn Norfolk Pine (usually spalted NP) it is still fairly wet, and it is unusual for me to not finish the piece to 1/2 to 3/8 inch walls or even near final thickness in one session. If I do have something on the lathe overnight, I just put a plastic bag over it and continue the next day.
Once I have the bowl shaped and a foot cut on the bottom for my chuck, I cut it off of the faceplate, and submerge it in the LDD solution for a day to several, depending on the throughput of the shop. The LDD is diluted about 4 to 1. That is, in a large plastic barrel, I dump in 4 gallons of LDD, add 16 gallons of water and a couple of quarts of isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol is in there primarily to help from things growing in the barrel, because I typically keep the same LDD batch going for a year or two, adding more ingredients in the same relative proportions as time goes on. I've noticed that after a year or so, it does tend to turn a bit darker, particularly when I'm doing a lot of darkly spalted wood, but the two may not actually be related. I haven't noticed any difference in the final color of the finished bowl, compared to one that never got the LDD treatment.
Once the bowl has pretty much saturated as above, a day or more, I take it out, drain it and sit it on a wire rack to dry. Once dry, I either final turn and sand, or just sand to final thickness, cut it off of the foot that's in the chuck and proceed to the finishing steps.
The benefit I see is that I haven't had any checking or splitting since I started this process, the wood sands much easier, and I clean up easier because of the residual detergent during sanding. I think the bowls saturate better in the finishing soup, but without performing experiments on bowls cut to the same thickness from the same tree, it's not scientific, but just a feeling.
Lignin takes sulphuric acid to dissolve, so I'm sure Leif means the tannins and other soluble extractives that accumulate in the darker heartwood. They come out more readily because of that other ingredient, the detergent. Wetter water increases solubility.
hey Madge... just to add to your data, I've been turning some very pretty buy very crack prone local ash, and wish that I hadn't put any of it into the LDD....
It's a bright white wood with a weird, almost green dark grain running through it... very nice contrast...
As I mentioned, the LDD has been turning black, all 6 of the rough-turned ash bowls that went in the LDD are now "grayscale"... the white is gray and the dark brown/green is black! Finish turning and sanding makes them a lighter gray and a flat black... original color and luster is gone... yuk!
====>Not sure what to tell you, mac. Some of my first turning wood was a white ash, straight from the vw mill of a friend of mine. It went through the LDD just fine. I have had basically the same mix for four years, I believe, though have not done any turning in going on three. What brand of LDD are you using??? Also, the LDD only penetrates a few cells deep and should have been turned or sanded off in the process. Unless the tannin is penetrating deeper, which hasn't happened in my experience, and dyeing lower levels???
I reread my post tonight and although I didn't intend to insult Who, it wasn't funny and I may have offended him. The ng being what it is, others may not have appreciated my silly and puerile OT side track. Actually, I hesitated whether to post it. When I have to wonder about posting something, it's prudent not to.
To Who and anyone disgusted by my post, my sincere apology.
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