A big thank you!

Well, there you go! ;o) I knew I couldn't have been totally wrong in that... as I have always had the highest marks in English (all parts of it) in school, and I had used the spelling above of my last name on at least a couple of papers I handed in and was never told differently by any teacher.

Gemini

Shillelagh,

I have to say I am in envy totally, every comment is well deserved and earned. BEAUTIFUL!!!

Hugs & God bless, Dennis & Gail

Shillelagh wrote:

thank you Dennis, and I hope all goes well at the hospital with your spine.

Hugs Shelagh

Vintage Purls spun a FINE 'yarn':

I don't envy anyone who learns English, whichever 'brand' (ie: Brittish, American, etc etc) as a second language either! I'm laughing tho, thinking about the argument about a 'store' here in the US named Lands' End, and it's been argued Land's End, Lands' End, Land's's End, etc... a hilarity to me... Noreen

Since MOEBBIUS is wrtten like this ,,, does it make a difference how one pluralizes it ??? By now it has become a name of a THING , like Hoover [to clean house] . etc.... mirjam

I think both are considered correct. I looked in my pocket dictionary, Webster's from 1990, and it shows the Greek word octopus being correctly pluralized both as octopuses and octopi. The Latin word radius is also correctly pluralized both as radiuses and radii, though I think in math conversations radii is the preferred term around here. Since moebius strips/bands are used in descriptions of the geometry, though, I didn't come across whether moebiuses or moebii seems to be the preferred form. But, I did read somewhere where it's considered better to spell it MOEbius rather than MOBius because it's actually a dotted "o", something not used in the US.

Leah

Grammatically speaking I would have to agree with Vintage on this one. Seeing how the name is a proper noun, it would just be simpler (and probably less confussing) to say Möbius band(s) or strip(s). Pluralizing the actual object and not the adjective.

My humble two cents, Christy

I can find it in some dictionaries (especially under the spelling 'mobius') but no plural is mentioned. For example see:

that it's a person's name (August Ferdinand Möbius) and thatwhat we're probably really talking about are "Möbius strips" or"Möbius bands" there just may not be any official plural. VP

I wondered why people used "moebius" I didn't realise that the US doesn't do umlauts (that's what the double dot above an 'a' 'e' or 'o' is called). Well, I'm going to stick up for the German origins and use "m=F6bius". I'm such a rebel. :)

VP

Since it is a NAME of a Person i am going to stick with MOEBIUS also that is the spelling in which Elizabeth Zimmermann introduced the Moebious [with the hidden seam ] to Americans ,,, mirjam

IT is a NAME Family name of August Ferdinand Moebius 1790- 1868 a topologist and mathematician By the way A double sided Moebius RING [ which is the proper name of THIS Shawl is a Klein Bottle !!!!! mirjam

Bernadette i say that i made quite some Moebius Shawls ,, and by this i feel i solved it to the best ,,, mirjam

Yes Gemini ,,, the Hollands is a Country`s name not a family name !!!! different rulings here ... also some names lend them selves to different ending because of pronounciation problems !!! mirjam

Moebius or M=F6bius are the two spellings I've seen in common usage. The later is more common in general use, the former more common amoungst knitters.

What we knitters refer to as "a moebius" is probably more understandable to non-knitters as "a m=F6bius strip".

According to this site:

history of knitted m=F6bius strips includes a 1971 paper by MilesReid which includes a knitted m=F6bius band and "Elizabeth Zimmermandesigned the best-known M=F6bius scarf, with an extrinsic twist, and itappears in her 1973 book Knitting Without Tears."How does Zimmermann spell it?Of course we pretty much know what people mean however they spell orpluralise it.

VP

How did my message from the 31st (which I thought was lost in the mists of time) appear *after* my post of today? I'll blame Google Groups.

VP

Mirjam, thank you also for that.

Having seen it referred to as "a moebius" is what led me to question how one would pluralise the word. With your permission I shall also use the expression "Moebius Shawls" as it explains simply, and without possibility of confusion, exactly what is being discussed.

It is also a rather more elegant solution to the question!

Bernadette

Oh Bernadette Of course you can use this expression it is not mine , and it is the most possible perfect description ,,, And i know what you mean by the HOW to plurize a word ,,, i have made so many of those shawls that it needs a plural deffinition. mirjam

VP , i have answered in another note that Elizabeth Zimmermann spells in it`s Proper German was MOEBIUS In her Book "Knitting Around , page 52 there is a whole chapter " The Knitted Moebius ,,,,, Our difference from her`s is that she indeed knitted a straight piece which she later turned into the ring with an unobsedved seam ,, we now adays Start from the middle and either knit or crochet outwards !!!!

What is this F6 thing ???? As far as i remember it DID NOT appear in knitting without tears !!!! And i would Never call it a Moebius strip , since it isn`t what it should be unless it is the ring with the twist ,, For years we aould cup paste and glue Moebius rings for our children !!!! mirjam

People who do computers tell me: Usenet newsgroups (which this is one of) use the ASCII text, which is a 7-bit computer system. Fancier word processing systems (like OE or Micro$soft Word) use an 8-bit system, which adds all the umlauts etc that the 7-bit system can't use. The 7-bit system renders them in whatever odd code it comes up with. The umlauted o in Mobius's name turns into =F6 because of that.

Spelling it Moebius is the acceptable way to get it to come out clear in the 7-bit system.

Technically you are correct. In common usage in the USA it is called a moebius strip because it is made by connecting the ends of a strip of paper. Only in knitting and crocheting is it now made by starting with a ring of stitches (and even that begins with a cast-on strip of stitches that are then connected). So I guess the "strip" refers to the beginnings of the moebius object in reality rather than the Platonic Ideal of it in its completed form without a beginning. Clearly the knitters and crocheters are the better mathematicians. :-)

=Tamar