baking with microwave

Allan,

Some of the older microwave cookbooks have recipes for baking bread in the microwave. As you have discovered, the bread doesn't turn out all that well. Your best bet is to bake in a microwave convection oven. Yeast breads bake without burning on top.

You can "bake" quick breads such as muffins fairly well though. I have a wonderful MW Morning Glory Muffin recipe that I've used a long time. My family enjoys the muffins when I "bake" them.

Mary

First of all, if you are mixing flour, water and baking soda you are not making what most people would recognize as bread. It might be a quick bread or a cracker or just nasty. Without any acid, the baking soda will not produce CO2, so technically, you don't have any leavening. Bread (without any qualifiers like quick bread or flat bread) is a yeast raised product, not a chemically leavened product. I would recommend that you go to a bookstore and get a cookbook on microwave cooking. Large bookstores have sections labeled "appliance cooking." That's where you would find the book. There will be a discussion about various ovens, power levels, etc. I would also suggest that you get a basic text on cooking such as Julia Child's "The way to Cook" or an equivalent text that has information on basic techniques. Finally, I don't think that you will be able to get any decent bread from a conventional microwave. Since there is no radiant heat, there is no browning. Browning not only contributes to the appearance of the baked good, but also to the flavor and texture. Newer microwaves combine radiant heat with microwave energy and yield better results than pure microwave cooking. I love my convection microwave, but even it doesn't do as good a job on bread on the mix setting (microwave + convection heat) as on the convection bake setting (convection only).

I believe you'd have to look at the science behind conventional ovens and microwave ovens. They bake things using different principles. The facts that make bread possible in a conventional oven are just not present in a microwave. You would have to develop a new way to make bread.

For example, you need microwave popcorn. You cannot use regular popcorn. The popcorn is not different. The bag that microwave popcorn comes in makes the difference. Also, you can get special trays for cooking things in a microwave that normally don't cook well in a microwave.

Maybe you need to develop a system for making the bread in the microwave. Don't change the recipe but change the way the bread bakes. Maybe you need to change the recipe as well.

Unless I misunderstood something, he need to learn how to make bread first. You don't make bread from flour, water, and baking soda. So, he does need to change the recipe and perhaps the mixing method in addition to learning how to use (or avoid using) a microwave for baking.

Actually, I do know how to make bread, even if I don't know the formal definition. I've made bread for decades in conventional ovens. However, since I was experimenting this time, I didn't think it was worth going to the trouble of doing it right only to have the microwave possibly stomp on it. So, I did something I considered minimally in the direction of bread. It isn't that far off, since it isn't very different from the batter I mix for making pancakes in a frying pan: I consider Indian chappatis and the big Ethiopian pancakes to be varieties of bread. Also, I since some of what I am getting this way is edible and not displeasing, even if it is not actually bread and has some drawbacks such as high density, it wasn't unreasonable to hope that some genre of baking could emerge from these efforts. I still think that is possible and others might want to experiment with it too. Given the crudeness of my improvised recipes, I'm inclined to consider the results somewhat successful.

The stuff I was making was generally not the size of full loaves but more the size of rolls. They were so dense that I usually only wanted to eat one slice at a time. Even when nothing else was added to it, it was good enough to dunk in soup. It was also ok for spreading cream cheese and marmalade on. Once I tried adding raisins and cinnamon to the recipe and the results were not bad.

I never heard of convection microwaves and am glad to have learned about them here. How much do they cost, typically?

It's true that the surface of the "bread" is fairly pale and doesn't looked baked. Maybe that can be corrected by brushing the surface with egg white or sugar water. I also tried making the "bread" flatter in the microwave. Next time, I'll try frying the flat "dough" in a frying pan instead and see how that works out. The results might be better and there will be no problem with browning it. I'm less optimistic about trying this with rolls in a frying pan.

I'm less concerned with the appearance than with the density. In other posts, I asked about making my own yeast and was kindly informed about making sourdough. So, maybe when I can let the dough rise the results will be less dense.

The reason I'm trying these experiments is that my kitchen is a little afterthought with no oven. So, I'm trying to manage with the appliances I have. If that fails, I'll consider getting a toaster oven or something like that.

I called the manufacturer, GE, and was informed that they have a 126 page cookbook for their microwaves for about 7 dollars plus S&H.

Ignorantly, Allan Adler snipped-for-privacy@zurich.ai.mit.edu

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One of the basic rules of experimentation is to change only one variable at a time. In this case you not only altered the recipe, making something that would be a failure in a conventional oven, but you changed the type of oven you used. I would go back to your standard bread recipe and bake half of it in your standard oven and half of it in the microwave and compare the difference. I looked at an old microwave cookbook that came with a microwave that I once owned. They had a standard one pound (3.5 cups of flour) bread recipe. The instructions said to bake for 13 to 16 minutes at

50% power. Bread is done when the internal temperature reaches between 200F and 210F. You might want to get an instant read thermometer if you don't already have one so you can check the internal temperature. You might look at some of the links in this search for information and recipes things considered, by using the microwave, you are only going to reducethe baking time by about 15 minutes and the final product will suffer. Ofcourse you will save the time it takes to pre-heat you oven. Since theentire bread making process takes several hours, I don't the see the pointin skimping on the last 16 minutes and have your final product come outcompromised. However, if you do feel that it is advantageous to save a fewminutes, I would consider one of the convection microwaves. The convectionbake setting on my oven uses 10% microwave power and defaults to 325F(although you can change the temperature.) No preheating is required and thebaking time is cut approximately in half. Not only will you get a betterproduct with less baking time, you can set the oven to proof the bread.While most people agree that a long, cool fermentation results in betterbread, for people in a hurry, the proof setting on the oven will save time. As for the convection microwave ovens, you can get an idea of the features and prices here: have a Sharp unit and I really love it.

Technically they are both crepes.

[snip]

As I mentioned in my posting, I don't have an oven. That's why I started experimenting with the microwave.

Ignorantly, Allan Adler snipped-for-privacy@zurich.ai.mit.edu

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• Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *

• Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *

• in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *

• metropolitan area. *

• *

****************************************************************************

Sorry, I didn't remember that you are without an oven. If it is in your budget, I would definitely consider getting a convection microwave. I use it for nearly all my baking and roasting.

I used to sucessfully make speciality rice apple cakes in the zapper. Made from powdered rice (no wheat), apple chunks, baking powder and water. I dont think there was anything else in them. Water content was critical, I would certainly add some fat if trying that recipe now.

These were 1 roll sized things, made serially. I tried bigger items but a zapper really cant heat anything larger with sufficient evenness.

I'm trying to remember the cook time, something like 2 minutes on full, or thereabouts.

in UK, 100-150 new. I dont see them about second hand.

I made those in a plastic bowl with straight sides, it was perfect, but you wont get any crusting in a nuke. Thats just a non starter. The closest you can get is drying out plus brown dye, so keep it soft.

IME a small ball like disc is the only shape that works. Even heating is the issue, flat things dont work. The container needs straight up sides, small plastic storage jars are just right.

Yes I think this would be much better. Drop scones, waffles, no problem. To make life easier I'd consider frying one huge one and cutting it up, maximum yield per work that way.

those things are total junk, trust me. Hopeless. A candle is more useful. I had one once as an overflow oven and I couldnt get it to do anything successfully.

you didnt find anything online? Might find nuke cookbooks in used book stores too.

Finally theres one last option. If youve got a ring/hob you can put a wire tray in a metal biscuit tin, sit it on the gas and youve got yourself an oven. With trial you can find a heat setting that bakes well. This was done more often in the early 20th century, with paraffin cookers etc. Overdo the heat and your oven melts :)

If youre doing all this because of budget, dont make the wire tray from copper wire, it reacts with the bread to form toxic green copper compounds.

If you want to make it a proper calibrated oven, Mrs Beeton tells you how to calibrate an oven with no temperature dial or thermometer. Its a matter of how long a bit of flour takes to go brown. Then you can use it for any book recipe.

Regards, NT

Is "powdered rice" the same as rice flour?

It's good to know it will also work without fat, since I'm trying not to use it in my cooking.

What was the wattage of the microwave and the power level you used?

I'm not sure I understand. First, I don't know what a ring/hob is. It suggests to me something like the thing a wok rests on while you are cooking with it. Second, I don't understand what a wire tray is. I've never seen one.

If I were going to improvise an oven, and I've done so on occasion for other purposes, I would just take a frying pan and the lid of a sauce pan, put whatever I'm cooking in the frying pan and cover it with the lid to hold the heat in. I can't let it get too hot because the plastic handle of the lid will melt or burn. I considered that for making bread or rolls but I think the dough would be in too direct thermal contact with the flame. Maybe what you are saying about the wire screen simply refers to a platform that the dough can sit on inside the "oven", such as I described it, and such that the part it is actually sitting on is a wire mesh, so that direct thermal conduction is minimized and instead the hot air cooks the dough.

Thanks for pointing that out. I noticed from your other posting that you are alert to the ways people can accidentally poison themselves while cooking. Maybe someone should write a cookbook full of such recipes, entitled "The Lucrezia Borgia Cookbook".

I once talked to a chemist who showed me an article on some culinary benefits to beating eggs in a copper bowl. Something about Cu++.

I'm not planning to make my own wire platform, although I'm interested in metal work (but only a beginner). Where does one purchase stuff like that?

I did make something using wire mesh for sifting sand for casting metal. It used, I think, aluminum mesh, with holes about a half an inch square or less, and nailed it to a wooden frame. I don't know if it would be ok to use the same kind of mesh for supporting dough.

Ignorantly, Allan Adler snipped-for-privacy@zurich.ai.mit.edu

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• Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *

• Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *

• in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *

• metropolitan area. *

• *

****************************************************************************

yes more or less - you can use either. The difference is in the particle size, but either is OK for this.

dont get vitamin A D E and K and EFA deficiencies, fat is a necessity.

Depends on which rating system youre using, and also the power to size ratio, and other things. You'll find out for yourself how long it takes for your portion size in your oven. Full blast power. It was truly fast cooking.

exactly

I'm really wondering where you are now :) Its a grid of stiff wire, to keep the cooked article off the superhot base of the oven.

spot on

hehe. Why volunteer to make yourself ill? Its quick and simple to learn how to avoid that.

Its only some lengths of steel wire interwoven to make a bit of flat open space, plus 4 standoffs made by bending some ends over. Any place that sells cooking items will have wire trays, and if youre in the middle of nowhere all you need is 2 pairs of pliers and some wire.

The dough wont sit on the wire, it sits on a sheet or tray on the wire. I'm truly puzzled, and curious as to why youre not familiar with hobs or wire trays. :) Or whether youre trolling.

Regards, NT

I don't know a lot of culinary terminology because I've never studied it. As my original posting shows, I'm inclined to improvise a lot and not to read or follow recipes. So even when I know what something is, I don't always know what it is called. Now that I think more about it, I think I've seen, lying around in drawers full of incomprehensible culinary apparatus, something consisting of a rectangular steel frame and a woven mesh of steel wire running across it and a metal handle. Maybe that is the item you're referring to. I don't have a large repertory of recipes and most of what I cook uses only a few kinds of tools and containers. Anything else didn't make a big impression on me. Sometimes someone else cooks and I watch and learn something, but in my experience no one has used a wire tray.

People are often astonished at how little formal knowledge I have about some of the things I ask about, even though I often have more passive knowledge or intuition than I appear to. There are other areas where I am better educated and, if we were discussing them, it might be my turn to be puzzled and curious. There might also be some language barriers in this case, since I notice you used the expression "spot on" where I think someone in the US might be more inclined to use the expression "right on" (if that's what you meant).

In this connection, let me mention a story which was allegedly composed under the sole constraint that it end with the line "East is east and west is west". The father of a large family died and after the funeral the family returned home where some of them started setting up card tables and putting out decks of cards. A friend of the family was horrified and asked them what they thought they were doing under such tragic circumstances. One of them turned to him and told him, "Well, 'e's deceased and whist is whist."

Ignorantly, Allan Adler snipped-for-privacy@zurich.ai.mit.edu

****************************************************************************

• *

• Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *

• Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *

• in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *

• metropolitan area. *

• *

****************************************************************************