Source for Durham Wheat Berries?

Hi Gary,

As I suggested on rec.food.sourdough, this is a spelling problem. Google for "durum wheat berries" (with the quotes) and all will be well...

HTH,

While we're at it, do you know of a source where I can get *non-commercial* quantities (i.e. something like 5 lbs or less) of the following:

Organic patent durum flour Organic durum wheat berries Organic polished aged (white) Indian Basmati rice (NOT!!! California Basmati, of which the most common is Lundberg)

All of these are available in wholesale amounts but so far a retail source eludes me.

Hi Alex,

I do not know a source, but...

If I were looking, I would contact my local health food store. They are very likely to help.

All the best,

Actually, I already have (at several separate stores). Unfortunately, the responses have basically been of 3 types:

"We'd be happy to order it - in 50 lb sacks. A 50 lb sack will be about $20.00. Is that OK?"

"Sorry, our distributor doesn't carry this"

"We have {xxx similar but not correct} item in stock right now"

This last one is most infuriating. What happens is, they don't pay attention to the details. That is, they have organic durum flour, but it's coarse semolina, not patent flour. Or they have non-organic durum wheat. Or they have organic white california Basmati. Etc. etc. There are some store personnel in any store who you can't make understand that every modifier of your request is significant.

Of course *my* problem is that I'm far too picky and specific in what I want. I'm often looking for things with so many detailed, specific aspects that it's improbable that any store will really carry them, because most people don't care about all those details, and, in order to get those details, you'd end up with a higher-priced item. Given that a majority of customers are extremely price-sensitive, most stores opt for the cheaper product, especially when you consider that no store can stock every possible variant of every product.

The problem with california basmati is that it's not basmati, it's a hybrid called texmati - originally bred to thrive in texas, thus the name. Frankly thai jasmine rice is closer to basmati than texmati is, imho.

On the other hand, I would be skeptical of 'organic' labeling on any agricultural product from india.

Durum wheat. Perhaps a food co-op? Grain elevator in a farming community?

I've certainly seen rice marketed as Texmati. However, I do also believe there are California farmers growing purebreed basmati. But that's immaterial anyway. The rice that is produced just isn't the same nor is it aged or polished.

Why? I can't see any specific reason why a farmer in India couldn't decide to follow organic farming rules, possibly to sell to an export market even if there isn't a market locally in India for his product. And I imagine that in a country as large and with as heavy a rice production as India, there are at least some growers who do farm organic Basmati. As I say, I've seen indications to this effect on wholesalers' sites, implying that you can buy it from them.

Yeah. If it's not aged it's not really basmati.

Well, to tell the truth, having had conversations with some of the farmers who started the whole 'organically grown' movement (Some of their sons are friends of mine), I'm skeptical of most 'organic' labeling - almost as skeptical as they are. The sentiment is that the 'movement' got out of hand and the standards for organic farming miss the point.

I know some indian business people. I'm pretty sure that, even if they had local regulations on what constitutes 'organic', they'd be more than willing to bend the rules and lie about it. After all, most of those pesticides are organic chemicals anyway, just ask a chemist.

...

What, exactly, do the people who you've talked to believe *is* the point? Now, the USDA standard isn't necessarily perfect, at least not by one person's definition, nor could any standard be perfect except to the people who drafted the standard. Euro standards also aren't "perfect", nor are any of the state standards, 3rd-party certifications, or anything.

Organic means different things to different people. Ultimately, some large, oversight body has got to agree on a set of standards that others must follow and for individuals and farmers then privately to claim that the standards aren't "really organic" is at that point a personal polemic rather than a statement of fact.

Without getting into the details, I think most consumers want organic to be:

Pesticide and synthetic fertiliser-free Hormone and antibiotic-free Non-GMO Non-irradiated Free from chemical preservatives, additives, etc. Free from certain aggressive industrial processes

Of course the last 2 are the slippery slope, because it's hard to define an exact list of industrial processes and additives that are not allowable. However, that's what we have standards bodies to do.

In any country there are going to be a few people without solid ethics who will be willing to bend the rules. This no doubt happens in India, in Italy, in Illinois. But I think by and large people are honest, at least when it comes to organic labelling. Furthermore, that's the other reason we have standards bodies - to make sure there's enough oversight that little rules-bending actually goes on. The certifying bodies typically monitor the producers for compliance. Everybody knows, too, that the risk is enormous. If a farmer who chose to bend the rules with organic got caught, the impact to his business would be devastating - probably more than if a conventional farmer got caught doing something directly illegal, even though the latter is probably more harmful. So there's a powerful incentive to abide by the rules.