I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
If you get a good first rise, then you should eventually get a good second rise. Make sure you deflate the dough, let it rest a few minutes, knead it a few times, and then form into the desired shape. Let the dough rise again until double. If the texture is not good, you may not be letting it rise enough. You will also get a better crumb and a chewy crust with a long, slow rise. Here is a link to great information on bread making:
YES, you should always proof your yeast. However,if you have a good first rise yeast is not your problem. It may well be the flour. I've never used "bread flour" but all purpose might give you the courseness you desire. Similar to cake flour vs all purpose: cake flour will give a fine, smooth texture wonderful for pound cakes. Sounds like everything else you're doing is fine.
Remember a couple things - too little flour will cause a lackluster second rise (dough will have a tendency to fall over the sides of the pan), and too much flour will make the bread hard and tough. What's right? Mix the flour into the liquid with greased hands, add one cup of flour at a time and when the dough no longer sticks to your fingers you have the right consistency.
Come on over to alt.bread.recipes and ask your question. Lots of experienced bread bakers there. Meanwhile, check out our FAQ that is under construction at
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your finished bread has the texture of quickbread you could be adding too much flour, not kneading enough, not proofing long enough.Janet
Hi: I use dry yeast that I buy in l pound packages from Walmart (Sams). One tb. for 6 cups of flour, first rise to triple the initial volume, (after neading with the Kitchen Aid mixer, then the 2nd rise (using perforated bread pans for 1 hour. Works every time. I suspect your yeast.
Everyone has posted good information for you. You may also wish to try doing a "sponge" first on the bread. Basically, take all the liquid in your recipe, 1/2 the flour and 1/2 the yeast and let it "proof" for 2-3 hours or until almost double (depending on the type of bread you are making this time will vary. Wheat based flours will proof faster than rye/other grain flours). Then follow the recipe from there as if you were at the "1st rise" step. After I started doing this step (had an old time artesian breadmaker show me this little gem) I have never had to worry about a 2nd rising and I haven't used my bread machine since!!! (except to make dough occassionally). It is a bit more time consuming but the rise of my yeast breads is incredible and the texture heavenly.
Many remove the bread from the bread machine after making the dough, then proceed to make the bread into any shape they wish. They use the recipes for bread machine bread; usually quite a few in the book that accompanies the machine. M.
Your KA mixer and knives are about all you really need. Since the OP asked about getting a mixer or a bread machine, I recommended the mixer or a food processor. Both are much more versatile than the bread machine. Of course if you already own a bread machine, it is a moot point. I just don't see any advantage in using the machine to make dough, and then removing it and completing the process by hand. Bread machines are fine for people who want to dump and run. It isn't baking, in my opinion just as I don't think that using cake mixes are baking. I know that stance upsets people, but alas, that is how I feel. If you don't own any appliances and want to make bread, then the bread machine would be the last device that I would recommend buying. I think that if you really want to learn how to bake, you aren't going to progress much with a bread machine. Does that make you a bad person or immoral - absolute not! It's just that you won't learn to drive by taking the bus even though it gets you to your destination the same as a car. Bread machines are probably a godsend for people with disabilities.
As for the food processor, I use mine for small batches of yeast dough and pie pastry, grinding nuts, making bread crumbs, grinding meat, chopping large amounts of onions, shredding cheese, making jullian cut vegetables, preparing mayonnaise and other emulsions, chopping chocolate, making ganache, preparing pasta dough, and many other tasks. You can do all that with a knife or your hands, as I do for small quantities, but it would take forever to make salmon mousse with a knife. With the bread machine, you can only make bread (OK, I know that some machines have a jam setting). I leave my food processor and KA mixer on the counter, otherwise I wouldn't use them.
I kind of agree with you... all valid points. There is a place and time for everything, even cake mixes... I'm sure they are a godsend to working Moms. I'm pretty sure that there are people that would like fresh warm bread with a meal but wouldn't consider making a cake from scratch and a KA mixer would be as useless to them as a food processor seems to be for me... (I'd probably buy one if I could find a place to put it) I bought my daughter in law a Kitchen aid mixer, for her wedding shower.. they have been married 2 1/2 years and I don't think the mixer has made it out of the box yet... but she definitely expressed an interest in my bread machine when she had my rolls at Easter. I'm hoping that I can gradually get her to cook...
Using a bread machine to make dough is easier for me because I don't have to stand by the mixer and watch it, once I've loaded the ingredients and checked that my dough consistency is right, I can do something else... for the next hour and a half.
I do use it to bake bread in it once in a while, especially at Christmas time when I'm pressed for time. but that's just bread... it's nothing special. Coming home to a hot bowl of homemade soup and a slice of hot bread sure beats grabbing a bite in a food court at the mall!
You make that food processor sound so interesting, I suppose I could get rid of my blender that I only use for making smooth sauces and an occasional chocolate milk shake... or maybe the cookie jar that never is used for cookies... hmm the wheels are turning.
We eat bread in some form every day, so my machine is used several times a week...
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