Lampwork set question

Does other customers feel this way? How do lampworkers feel?

Tina

I think you are thinking too hard... LOL

a "set" according to the dictionary is a number of things of the same kind that belong or are used together

all the beads you referenced can be "used together." That is the vision of the artist - that THEY see the items as a set - just because your particular artistic aesthetic does not agree with the artist's -

-does not make them not a "set" in their view. Sure - you can break them into "subsets" based on your tastes, or visions - but if that is what the artist has deemed a "set" in their artistic view - it's a set.

As for pricing -- that's subjective. you take or you leave it...

Cheryl of DRAGON BEADS Flameworked beads and glass

Hi Tina.

I guess anyone can call anything they want a set. I've never really thought about it that much. I've seen beads that are really different in appearance called a set. I'm wondering too, if they were strung differently, with the spacers between the scrolled beads for the bayou set, if it would look more cohesive and not as noticeable.

As for the transparent spacers...well, that glass definitely isn't in the other beads, but they might have been used to make the 'set' look longer/larger.

As for pricing, I don't know....not that I know much about anything else either. :)

I'm with Cheryl on this one.

The trouble with seeing six inches, or ten, of beads as a set/artistic view, is that in order to be used, there will usually need to be other beads added, and that odd element thrown in, might have to be thrown out. (Of the set).

We talk a lot here about perceived value in jewelry, and about educating both our suppliers and our customers. And, obviously, a set is anything declared to be a set. Duh. But I'm trying to get some meaningful dialogue that will benefit both lampworkers and and their customers.

Tina

When I am putting together what I think of as a set, all that means (to me) is a grouping of beads that I think go together nicely. If it's a set with a Victorian Floral focal, then while the auxiliary beads will often be in the colors used in the focal, there will often be pairs included in complementary transparent colors. To me, they go together and are a set. And if I were making a necklace with them, for example, I could use all of the beads from the set in the necklace.

I just think it's a matter of taste as to what goes together and what doesn't.

Most designers probably wouldn't know (or care) if the spacers were of a different kind of glass. It's possible that the spacers are a better match than appears in the photo. In the close-up, it looked like darker shades of red/blue were probably in the beads "in real life".

Of course these colors aren't a combo I care for, so I wouldn't be tempted to bid on them anyway! However, as a designer I appreciate having more beads in the colors of the focals because lots of times the custom colors that lampworkers come up with are hard to match. Keep in mind also that the lampworked focals/spacers would probably be separated with Bali or something as well...

Just LOVE the Angelkisses set!

My first thought when looking at this is "oh what a pretty set". I think all the colors are cohesive and look very nice together.

I suppose, to me, a big part of being a set is that the same materials are used (glasses). Kandice makes sets of un-alike beads that are cohesive because of materials and style.

And I know a set is a set is a set. A string of spacers is a set. A set of

I'm rambling of course. Just interested in some dialogue on it.

Did I tell you how much I love those fancy "berry" beads. Berries are a perfect description of them too. With both the glow and the emerging deepening tones that berries have.

Tina

Hmmm - I like the first set, but the transparent spacers don't seem to go, since the lampworker did not incorporate those transparent colors in the main beads. If I include spacers in a set, they are usually in the same colors as the main beads. The Bluff Road beads are an example of a set that include spacers that incorporate the same glass that is used in the main beads. Bluff Road's beads will go for a much higher price than what they are now - she has an amazing sense of balance - color and design.

I tend to see things in a very ordered way, so naturally, my sets are very ordered (usually). Not everyone sees it the same way. Of course, I don't think this really effects the price as much - people will pay for what they like, and that's a subjective thing.

Many people will buy a set of beads and separate them to be used in different pieces of jewelry. The first set can be done like that, or one can add beads in the colors that aren't as represented in the set to balance it out.

To each his/her own, of course. :)

I am looking at the first auction you listed Tina, and I don't see where she says other beads are made of a different glass...They are all made of Effetre glass, but some of the red and turquoise spacers are transparent, and some solid like the focal and accent beads. So, unless I am blind, and missed where she said they were 2 different glass types, they are all Effetre...just that some are solid and some transparent. Since the transparent ones are still red and turquoise like the solid beads, I would say that they go with the set. But that's just my opinion.

Marissa

Oh yes, I love having custom colored spacers included. I bought a set from Kim Miles with a huge and 2 large blue flowers with CZs, and several cobalt blue (also quite large) spacers. Now cobalt may have been used to make the flower, but it's not what color the flower looked. When I bought them, I considered the spacers as extra that I probably would not use. I didn't find them a good color to use with her beautiful beads, so I used them elsewhere. And what wonderful plain beads they were.

I'm not complaining at all.

I guess partly, I wonder how many lampworkers notice these things. I know I'm being picky. I guess I'm a little surprised I've never heard anything about this from lampworkers. Maybe it's addressed in Wet Canvass or other groups more particularly devoted to glass working.

Tina

I really feel the same way you do, Tina, and asked this same question of this group several months ago.

I was reminded of the emperor's new clothes. How DARE I say he was nekkid! LOL What do you MEAN that's not a set???

That first group of beads, to me, is a set of 7 with 2 accents, 8 spacers and 8 throwaway beads from their discard pile.

The second group is a set and the third group is three sets.

When I asked, I was told (by some) that they would be stifled, bored, etc. if they had to make the same bead over and over again. HUH??? All I wanted was a "set." 5 to 7 or 9 beads that matched. Not 7 to 25 beads that only had the same colors in common and called a "set."

If that's the artist's "vision," more power to her, but then I can also wear a sneaker and a boot, call them a pair of shoes and slap the crap out of anyone who says otherwise. ;-D

Katie

~~ KatieLiz ~~

I have seen thematic sets (like the second and third in your list) and what appear to be more or less a bunch of beads thrown together (orphans and all) just to try and generate a decent price for a single listing, and a lot of stuff in between. Usually, I don't offer sets unless the beads are of the same glass and the same pattern. I usually don't make spacers even in the same glass, but your post has me reconsidering this. However, I have seen finished jewelry pieces that really work, but are made up of beads that I wouldn't think went together at all. So I would look at the beads, decide which if any, I could use and bid accordingly. If you buy a strand of 20 and put 3 or 4 aside for later and make a great piece from the rest, you could still come out even if you never use the excess beads.

Well, there are a lot of variables, not least being the perception of the seller... to me, those transparent beads don't really have much to do with the rest of the set... but to the maker, they "went" together, so in they go! Some people really see colors differently, and stuff that matches to them might not match to me at all, or vise versa.

Size of the beads seems to be a big thing, and it does take longer to make a larger bead than a smaller one, so that makes sense to me. Barrels and bicones and lentils and cubes all take longer (and require more skills) than round or donut-shaped beads. Intricate, close-together scrolling with fine stringer takes a lot of skill, and rightfully commands higher prices. Anything that adds time, danger, or expense, like enamels, dichroic, precious metals, or many different colors in one bead, adds to the price. Glass that's expensive and touchy may call for a higher price. A well-established name artist can ask a higher starting price than a newbie.

Lastly, sometimes prices are all over the price because artist A puts an opening bid no lower than what they want to sell for, while artist B puts an opening bid that's lower than what they expect the auction to end at, either because they hope a low starting price will generate a bidding frenzy, or because wen they first started that's how much they started auctions at and it's a tradition, or for other unknown reasons. I am thinking of one artist who always starts her auctions at $24.99, and ALWAYS gets more that double that, sometimes five times more. (Hint: it's NOT ME!)

The fancy beads are opaque. So to me the "transparent" ones don't match because they are of (transparent) glass, which is not used in the primary group of beads. Same as green, even though the glass is from the same manufacturer, would be a glass not in the primary beads.

See, in completing a necklace, I'd probably have to introduce a strand of beads in red or turquoise, to make it long enough. And because I'd want to keep the focus on the ornate (but with just 2 colors) beads, I wouldn't want to detract from them by having such a variety in spacers.

Tina

That is how I buy beads. Pay my top price for the beads I know I want. The rest is gravy; but I'm not much of a gravy eater.

As far as a stunning piece from odd combinations goes, well that's a whole new catagory of questions. From the lampworkers point of view, it probably doesn't showcase his or her beads, nor is it likely those beads would pull in a very good price. And there are a lot more customers (jewelry makers) who will happily buy, and pay a better price, for a cohesive group they can easily put together.

Thanks for your views.

Tina

Actually the price was the least important factor. Anything is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. No more, no less. And like you say, some glassworkers even forget to raise their prices. I only mentioned it because, at the time I noticed these, which I just quickly picked out for some very general similarities, they seems kind of close. Just lazily scanning it, I saw $25 for 7 by Michelle Eilts, $25 for each set of seven primary beads by Bluff Road, and $25 for 7 fancy ones by Mary Jarvis plus $25 more for the accents and spacers.

I have not had the pleasure of owning any Bluff Road beads, but have beads by the other two. These are women I admire, and I don't think the prices are too high for any of the sets.

I am not making judgements or complaints. The pricing I'm just kind of curious about, because the most compelling factor is just "I like". But color is practically a passion for me. A language. Like braille. Something I feel. Something evisceral.

Yummmy, yummy colors and light -- mmmm, glass, and gems.

Tina

Tina it's actually a good question....

I think (and of course it's only a guess) that what you see in the first 'set' is the approach of color=set. Meaning that the artist sees ALL the various shades of turquoise for example as related - dark turq, light turq tranparent turq, opaque turq. Along this mindset, turq frit and casing with trans turq are all part of the color family in use and would (based on this approach) be part of the set.....

So my thought is that while all the turqs used in that first set vary a great deal visually and have very different reflection/refraction qualities (which is another aspect of lampwork beads that is very dynamic in the perception and appearance of color & artistic taste, (yet not one commonly considered) they are very 'technically' all of the same core colors used - turq and red.

Another thing that (can) detract from the visual 'matching factor' (IMHO) in certain colors/kinds of transparent glass is the fact that unlike their companions in the set your eye senses two other variables.

Price is such a volatile variable - I've read, listened, watched and lived so many permutations of explanation vs reality vs marketing vs trend vs who can say? that I won't even wade into the riptide of market/price. One of my pet passions is marketing, yet I confess the reason it fascinates me is that it's so complex, layered and tied to personal (both seller and buyer) psychology and emotion. It's actually fascinating I think to see the range of responses to demand/desire from lampwork sellers and lampwork buyers mixed amongst economy, and endless assorted (and interesting!) variables.

Per normal I'm rattling on too long, lol... FWIW, just another insight into what may be the thought process behind the words 'lampwork bead set'.

Faith