Re: Feminism, Families & other wanders

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :

] "Should" often has ]nothing to do with reality.

two points - exactly.

}At that point one of the obligations we have to ]our kids is to protect the children from bitterness. Truth is fine, but not ]bitterness.

well, most of the time, i tried. mostly. but i can't honestly saw i was always successful or always trying.

but the day he died, all my sister and i could think of was "thank all the gods, now he can't hurt any more children."

NOT to the J's, of course!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

newest creations: ----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Deborah Barilleaux" :

]But I realize that all I can ]do is listen when they need to vent about him.

yep. no matter how it works out, that's what it comes down to.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

newest creations: ----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:19:30 -0700, "Karen_AZ"

I was always truthful with the boys about their father's short- comings. They saw this as badmouthing him when they were younger. There were times when I had to just shut up when I saw the hurt in their little faces. But, in the end, I see that it was the right thing to do. Both of them have told me privately that I was right. Both are disappointed in the man they held in such high esteem when they were little. Matt even commented to me this past summer how disappointed he is that Roger has not called, written or attempted to get in touch with him in any fashion since Matt's graduation from the Marine Corps. But this is just a continuation of all the times he would call when they were little. Call and get their hopes up that he was coming from CA to see them "soon". And he was sending them a letter next week. And he would call them next weekend. Then they would check the mailbox every day after school, and run every time the phone rang. But in 20 years he never wrote a single letter. And he never called back in less than 3 months. Now they know. And they know I will never lie to them. Barbara Dream Master

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." --Will Rogers

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:24:33 -0400, vj wrote (in message ):

If that's possible for you. My mom cannot listen to us vent without doing a whole lot of venting of her own, which isn't always helpful. As a kid/teen, it was very hard to know that I couldn't speak about problems I was having with my own mother, but as an adult, I realize she has her own demons.

The three of us siblings vent to one another, which we find enormously helpful. After all, we all shared the same experience - well, as much as three people can share any experience.

If you guys can listen to new complaints and old survivor stories about your former husbands without adding a bunch of stuff of your own, I applaud you. Your children are blessed to have you.

Kathy N-V

KarenK My kids both thank me and have formed their own opinions about him. They say that I'm "too nice" when I talk about him. LOL They don't like him but they are still trying to get him to love them.

In the early 90's you had to pay the state enforcement agency starting at $250 unless you were on welfare. Then they deducted what you received from the kids father. But out here unfortunately sometimes the payment never made it from the state to the parent that was to receive it.

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :

]If you guys can listen to new complaints and old survivor stories ]about your former husbands without adding a bunch of stuff of your ]own, I applaud you. Your children are blessed to have you.

seconded. i try - but i don't know that i do all that well. i think the J's talk to each other more than they do me. all i can do now is say, "I'm sorry, truly. But without him, I would not have had YOU."

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

newest creations: ----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Barbara Otterson :

] But this is just a continuation of all the times he would call ]when they were little. Call and get their hopes up that he ]was coming from CA to see them "soon". And he was sending ]them a letter next week. And he would call them next weekend. ]Then they would check the mailbox every day after school, and ]run every time the phone rang. But in 20 years he never wrote ]a single letter. And he never called back in less than 3 months. ]Now they know. And they know I will never lie to them.

BINGO! exactly, Barbara.

BT, DT, too many damn times.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

newest creations: ----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

Aren't your kids past the age of ten? I'd say they're ready for a serious talk about Dad. ~~ Sooz

That's the thing. They know mom will always tell them the truth, instead of whitewashing stuff. ~~ Sooz

"all i can do now is say, "I'm sorry, truly. But without him, I would not have had YOU."

That is basically what I tell mine now. There's no point in going over everything all the time. It's upsetting too much. I figure one day my kids will realize just how much I gave to them.

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Deborah Barilleaux" :

]I figure one day my kids ]will realize just how much I gave to them.

sometimes, they just have to grow up. but it's worth the wait.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

newest creations: ----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

Yep, that's very important to establish early on, with the little, insignificant things. That way, when the big things roll around, the trust is in place.

My dd knows not to ask unless she wants truth!

The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized LC in Sunny So Cal Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:22:15 -0400, LC aka Fiddy wrote (in message ):

My DD and I made a deal that she can ask me anything and I will answer her with the truth. I've always done that, even if the answer was "that's personal information, and I cannot tell you anything further. If those people want you to know, they'll tell you. I have not been arrested, and neither has Daddy." (She asked who we know that has been arrested)

It has worked for us. I feel comfortable insisting on hearing the truth, because I know that I've been truthful in my dealings with her. It's also bitten me in the butt, when a first grade Manda told her entire class the gory details about reproduction during recess. (I got a few irate phone calls from that, I'll tell you!)

It has also enabled Manda to ask about things that teens normally don't bring up with their parents - I can't think of one "mine field" subject we haven't discussed in excruciating detail. Our opinions are often very dissimilar, but we each respect the right that the other has to voice them. I found it very surprising that Manda is a lot more to the right, politically than I am.

Kathy N-V

That's wonderful!

Tina

"Kathy N-V" wrote ...

Our daughters just might be twin sisters of different mothers! Mine told the whole preschool class how menstruation works!!!

I like that answer about "private", I'll have to remember that one!

The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized LC in Sunny So Cal Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:42:45 -0400, LC aka Fiddy wrote (in message ):

My kid found an appreciative audience with the other information. I do know she had listened to me closely two years before, when she had asked me. I know this because she was clinical and very, very thorough when she told her classmates.

Feel free to use it. When she was very young and asked about things that would be horrible for her to know about, (I'm specifically thinking of the details of child murders and such) I'd tell her that such information was not meant for children, and that if she didn't mind, I'd rather carry the burden a while longer. She'd sometimes ask further details, and I'd say it was something terrible and that the person responsible was in jail, but not give so much information that it would frighten her.

Later when she was older, we had the nightmare of the Boston priest sexual abuse revelations. Our pastor was one of the priests involved, and had to leave the parish in disgrace. Manda (about eleven at the time) had lots of pointed questions, and as she was older, I answered them with a lot more detail. Once she knew the whole story, she asked to resign her position as an altar server.

I offered to make sure that she was never alone with any priest (it had never happened anyway - I always sat nearby while she served at Mass). She said that she would never be comfortable, and I called to pull her from the program. It was so sad - she had really loved altar serving, and was very good at it.

Just to let you know, there is a down side to the total honesty and "ask me anything" policy. If I had to make the choice again, I'd still do things the same way, but we have had our share of uncomfortable moments, and I get a lot of grief from my family for "telling Manda too much." (Even now, and she's almost 15, for heavens sake!) I'd rather live with the butterflies in my stomach now and again than have my kid feel that there are things she couldn't share with me.

Kathy N-V

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnospam (LC aka Fiddy) :

]My dd knows not to ask unless she wants truth!

**chuckle** my kids know that, too!

i actually heard Jamie tell one of her friends one time: "DO NOT ask my mom unless you really, really want to know what she thinks!"

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

newest creations: ----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :

]I found it very surprising that Manda is a ]lot more to the right, politically than I am.

**sigh** it seems to be prevalent with kids from high school through college. maybe a taste of the real world will wise them up.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

newest creations: ----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.