Hi everyone,
I've only just joined this group and thought that this could be very beneficial information for you all.
If you have a need to purchase a kiln for your business etc, either now, or in the future, taking just a few minutes of your time to read this could save you a lot of money and just as importantly, a lot of heartbreak. I wish someone had contacted me before I lost everything.
To explain briefly, I've only recently had to close what should have been a very profitable business, but I couldn't even get out of first gear because of the problems with two (yes two) top of the range kilns (ECO 220) supplied from a company called Bohle, a German company, based in Oldham in England. I opened up in mid-Oct and closed mid-May. I've added a letter I sent to them some time ago. This will help to explain things further, without me having to go through some of the details again. The letter hasn't been altered in any way at all, apart from replacing names with asterisks to protect their privacy. Incidentally, the kilns were listed at around £6,500 inc VAT in their brochure, but are now being sold for a staggering £7,200 inc VAT in their latest brochure. A £700 increase?I wonder why!
Just to add, after spending an absolute fortune on the garbage the kiln was producing, only to load most of it into a skip, the company eventually held their hands up and agreed to send me another NEW kiln as a replacement, along with a small offer of compensation. It was a drop in the ocean, but I had to accept it, or go out of business there and then. It took them around four weeks to change it over, so I was left once again without a large kiln during this time. At least they were consistent with their service. What I received was a joke. It wasn't a new kiln as promised (or rather it was, if you accept their train of thought). What I received was a kiln that had been completely rebuilt, top to bottom, because the forklift driver dropped a crate right through it from above. That was my new kiln?unbelievable or what? You decide.
The three large mesh panels on the top of the 8 feet x 4 feet kiln had large scrape marks all over them, along with a large number 1, 2 and 3 written on them with a black ink marker, for re-assembly purposes I suppose. There were other marks all around it, the bed wasn't a true level, hence firing full length doors/panels/tabletops etc wasn't a possibility. The bed was covered in white glue marks and the insulating materials weren't secured correctly, as I had 5 plates marked because of movement?more garbage for the skip. A couple of the bricks were broken, leaving a v-shaped gap in between them. Even one of the wheels wouldn't turn and had to be slid into position. I was told that it was due to an incorrectly sized bold when it was being rebuilt. Told you it was top to bottom! As for the 10 kiln shelves?they had to be seen to be believed. 8 of them went back with the driver because of heavy gouge marks on them and the other two shelves were kept by the company rep for evidence, as he was there upon delivery of the second kiln.
I was truly astounded that this was ?my new kiln' and even more so when the rep was adamant that's what it was, even after I aired my disgust at receiving it. Just to digress for a second?if you were awaiting delivery of a new car and the dealer crushed, or rolled the car, would you accept it as a new car after being completely rebuilt on their premises? He was told in no uncertain terms that if I had been told what I was getting, then I wouldn't have agreed to a replacement. Again, at this most critical time, I was left with no option but to use it, or close the door that day, telling them that it was a case of too little, too late. I was assured it had been tested and was working correctly this time, so I tested it myself for a week. The kiln worked fine for that week and I contacted potential customers. Just a week or so later I had to abandon all hope for the business as once again I had a faulty kiln on my hands. It wasn't working at all on one side and the rep came out to see for himself, telling me that I was wrong, that the kiln was working perfectly?I think I've heard that before somewhere. After showing him the most recent crap from the kiln, he was stunned himself, as it should have registered as a fault on the Bentrup controller. He saw for himself that it wasn't doing what it should and admitted that even for all the faulty kilns he's had to deal with, he was totally dumbfounded by it, as he had never seen that before. Just another fault to add to the ever lengthening list.
I've told you exactly what happened with my situation, but I'm not going to say to you not to purchase a kiln from Bohle, that could possibly be taken as defamation of character or slander etc, it's your decision. I'm not making anything up, adding anything, just simply telling it as it is. I will not simply walk away as Bohle want me to do and let you, or someone else, experience what I'm going through just because of lack of information. What I would say is to get confirmation from at least three sources before purchasing any kiln.
I also bought a smaller kiln from a company called Kilncare in England (contact me for full details if you wish). This kiln was absolutely superb. I cannot praise the kiln, or the company highly enough. I knew exactly how everything was going to look, as soon as I lifted the kiln lid. It did what it was supposed to do and I recommend them with total confidence. It was thanks to this kiln that I was able to produce quality goods, but not in the quantities I needed. They're also really genuine people, treating you with respect and taking the time to assist you in any way they can.
Can you help? If you've had problems with Bohle kilns, or if you know of anyone who has, I'd appreciate it if you would e-mail me with all relevant details. I know of some others, but I want to compile a list of at least a couple of dozen people with similar problems. This is extremely important and I do hope you can help. Thanks!
Please pass this e-mail onto any friends or contacts, who you think may have reason to purchase a kiln. Forewarned is forearmed as they say and I certainly intend to warn as many people as I can, so they don't suffer the same fate as myself.
All the best!
Eric
Dear Sir,
I'm contacting you regarding the situation with the faulty kiln and your company's offer of compensation. I've also taken the opportunity to point out a few other matters that should be brought to light.
Firstly, I would like you to know personally that I'm grossly insulted by your company's outrageous offer of compensation. It borders on the ridiculous.
Secondly, that I'm also appalled by the so-called service that I've received from Bohle on numerous occasions.
It really has been farcical at times, yet it's myself who's had to pay the price of your company's incompetence, or suffer the couldn't care less attitude at times and generally being fed conflicting and clearly incorrect information regarding the delivery of orders etc. I apportion no blame to any individuals that I've personally dealt with for the latter, as that was obviously the information coming from Germany. It seems as though that's where a lot of the problems appear to begin.
Can I be so bold as to make a suggestion here? I suggest that if you cannot supply the requested goods within a reasonable timescale, please be honest with your customers and inform us to this effect so we can take appropriate action. Don't lead us along, don't feed us bullshit, simply be honest with us. It would enable us to deal with the problem, or have confirmation that there would be a delay. Personally I would appreciate that and it would make me feel valued as a customer. It would underline the fact that you truly cared about your customers, rather than simply keeping us forever holding on to secure an order, without regard to the severe inconvenience that can be caused by it.
In my situation, to quote one instance, to be knocked about from pillar to post over a period of around 6 weeks for a basic order of floatglass, having to keep adding to the existing order because of the delay (I think it reached around 96 sheets in the end), yet constantly, I repeat, constantly being let down, was disgraceful. I remained loyal to Bohle, as I was assured on numerous occasions that my order was to be delivered. Again, this was the information on the system and once again, it was total bullshit! Sorry, but there really isn't any other way to describe it. I then heard by chance from
******* *** that no orders would be sent until at least January 5th. If ******* hadn't mentioned that, I would have waited even longer for a non-existent order. Pathetic! I guess I was about the only one who didn't have that information.I'm raging at the treatment I received, but even more so, I'm absolutely dismayed at the stupidity of it all. The entire situation was a farce. This could (and should) have been avoided at a number of stages of that fiasco, with nothing more elaborate than simple, straight forward, communication.
Apparently Bohle are now in a position where they don't need to care about individuals like myself, when you can't take a few seconds to make a telephone call to let us know of any problems, that's all it takes, rather than being led along. I was constantly trying to get information, constantly being told a lot of utter nonsense and repeatedly being told that I would receive a call back and guess what?.again on many occasions?.nothing! I even spoke to one of the managers and vented my fury about that, I was told that it would be sorted out and I'd be called back to explain what was happening, needless to say what happened (or didn't happen as the case may be) next.
If someone were to tell me of this, I would assume that they were either lying, or were hugely exaggerating ? truly unbelievable and now here we go again regarding the kiln. It's relentless.
I'm so bored with all this negativity and having to take the time to write this letter, when I should be doing something more productive. Having spoken to *******, I'm of the opinion that at least you'll give me the facts as they are and good or bad, at least I'll know where I stand, allowing me to take appropriate action.
Briefly, as you are aware, because I was given a programmer with an incompatible microchip for my kiln, the kiln had been spewing out nothing but garbage for many weeks. I estimate the costs to be in the region of at least £5,000 - £6,000. Having worked every day from mid-November until January the 2nd (I kid you not) to go through the long process of filling the kiln to its capacity, I'm sure you can imagine my disappointment, frustration and anger at removing this garbage. If ******* hadn't found out the cause (which Bohle knew about), it would still be doing it now. Add the cost of all my time into the equation and you will get the true impact of the situation.
I'm a new business and as such, cannot absorb a major problem like this in the way that a well established business perhaps could. I was constantly spending funds, with it being impossible to trade effectively. All this and working round the clock constantly getting nowhere, all because of faulty goods supplied by yourselves. Not only faulty, but Bohle knew of the problems with the microchips, so I shouldn't have had to go through this torment?and yes, that's the word. Even ******* did a firing, where the piece on the ring mould should easily have rested on the kiln shelf and bottomed out ? IT NEVER MOVED AT ALL!
Between the garbage from the kiln and a lot of the garbage I've had to endure (again, I would like to stress because of the information on the system, not by individuals), Bohle has been doing its utmost to put me out of business, before I've even got started. I'm now at a critical stage of my business because of this, even though everything's in place here for me to make a huge success of it, yet your company (who I heavily relied on ? my fault I know) has let me down badly. Understatement of the year I think!
I'd like to add that I've been very happy with some of the personal service that I've had from some members of your staff. In particular,
******* *** has been a credit to your company, being professional (and honest with me) throughout. You are indeed very fortunate to have him working for your company.To be as honest with you **** as I can, I hate all this. I'd rather things were sorted, but I'm not and I stress, not going to accept being treated in this disrespectful manner. I can assure you that I'll do whatever it takes to get some sort of satisfaction from this, even if it means my demise. Should this happen, you have my word that Bohle will not go away from this without being tarnished by it. Certainly not by twisting anything, or making any wild exaggerations or suchlike which could possibly be construed as slander, just by stating relevant facts, through the relevant channels.
Having read that last paragraph again, I don't feel comfortable with it, as I detest any form of confrontation, but I'll leave it in as it does partly explain how I feel. I'm determined that I'll go the distance with this, in whichever form it needs to take.
I'm as placid and as honest and caring as any man you're ever likely to meet, but I resent the stance taken by your company at this stage. It appears as though I'm looked upon as being miniscule by your company in relationship to your customer base, but I wonder how many of your existing customers realise that they could be in my position in the future. This might well be another David and Goliath scenario and I'll suffer (again), I know that and I'm ready for it, but I can wholeheartedly assure you, that Bohle will suffer too if it's the last thing I ever do. Make no mistake about that!
****, I know that your being left to deal with this when it's party out of your hands and I'm sorry for being a little forthright in trying to express my true feelings over this shambles, but it's imperative that you fully comprehend my situation. I don't want to waste any more of my time over this, or indeed yours, so hopefully I've clarified everything for you.Kind Regards
Eric Russell (Glass World)