OT: I have a question for you.

This is an interesting way of thinking ,,,,, Do you say that if one is FORCED to see or read something , it can affect one`s understanding of what one reads or sees? Or in general that the circumstances of seeing a film affect one`s `understanding it ? mirjam

1) the UN does provide some constraint on US behavior. When push comes to shove, we will do what we want, but we would prefer to have UN approval 2) the UN provides a forum for multilateral behind the scenes diplomacy where countries can make beginning overtures to each other without losing face. Sometimes this has positive results. This has had benefits for US relations with other countries in preventing aggression. 3) the UN has been successful in preventing or addressing aggressive acts (North Korea into South, Iraq into Kuwait, Cypress, Macedonia. Even when the US is not a major motivator behind UN peacekeeping missions, we are the major financial supporter. 4) the experience of the League of Nations would appear to have shown that no major international organization can be effective without the participation of the largest powers. 5) If we paid all our dues, we would contribute 28% of the UN's operating budget. Even when we're in arrears, our contribution is still larger than that of the next largest donor (either Germany or Japan, I can't remember).

Elizabeth

It fails to prevent war, but it is not unworkable. It has fostered collaboration on all sorts of issues and allowed for the sharing of information and resources on a level unheard of otherwise. It is not without its major successes, including decolonization, peacekeeping missions around the world, education and relief of refugees, monitoring of the safe use of atomic energy.... The UN fosters collaboration among countries and exerts moral suasion and economic sanctions to keep the most egregious offenders in line with international law. Its main failing is that when push comes to shove, it has no mechanism for keeping one of the five permanent members of the security council in line because the SC is the mechanism and cannot be used over any one of those member's veto.

Elizabeth

And the constraint comes in where??

Aggression against ??? the citizens of UN member countries?? aggression against US interests??? aggression against the USA??

Peace keeping is very selective when applied and not often successful.

define successful?? largest powers making puppets of the weaker is successful?? largest powers propping up despots to serve the interest of the largest powers is successful for the largest powers. I do not see it as any more successful than the league of nations. The larger powers basically play games of stalemate and work their own agendas on the side. It does nothing to address the basic issues. Africa has not done well at all aside from band aid handouts. There are more people in slaved in present day Africa than at the height of the slave trade, Even once prosperous countries are being run into starvation by government Acton .

The old well others do it excuse?? non dues paying no long a political ploy to bully and control???

Bull sh... de colonization one of the UN great success stories??? peacekeeping ???? successful??? in Africa amongst the chosen deserving one or two ,no way. In the middle east???And who is being kept in line by sanctions??? or even the threat of them . It is international big business which have the real clout. do you really think anyone would have given a dame about Kuwait if it was some poor black Africans with no oil??? I have watched the Un in action or mostly inaction for 40 years, it is squawking sterile hen. Ruby

In terms of world opinion of US actions. I think we'd be even worse than we are without the UN.

US aggression against other countries and other countries against the US. I'm talking since the inception of the UN. I think it played a pivotal role in maintaining peace during the Cold War.

It has to be selective. Until the early 90s, no peacekeeping mission was put in place without the agreement of both sides. If one side said "out" they withdrew. Of the forty some odd missions, more have been successful than not.

Preventing major all out war.

You don't need the UN for any of that to happen.

I disagree. It has done a lot to address the basic issues. But because it is an intergovernmental organization, it has limited mechanisms by which to force members to do things they don't want to do. I don't think we can lay at the feet of the UN failures that rightly belong to the African governments themselves.

No, not at all. I'm not saying others do it and I'm not in any way trying to justify US behavior around dues paying. I think we should pay our dues and be done with it. But the fact is that UN dues are a percentage of the country's GNP (or GDP, I forget which). The US economy is so much larger than any other country's that we are assessed more than twice as much in real terms as the next highest payer. So far as I know, neither Germany nor Japan has ever been in arrears, but even if we only pay half of our assessment, we pay more than they do. My point is simply that without the US, the UN budget would suffer.

Elizabeth

*shrug* I don't think it's fair to judge a person or an organization based on what it doesn't choose to do. Just as I reject Victoria's demand that I go to Africa to serve in order to be a good person, I reject the expectation that the UN solve all the world's problems. I beleive that the world is a better more positive place with the UN than it would be without it.

-more than 80 countries have become independent under UN stewardship, including Namibia, Western Sahara, St. Lucia, Timor-Leste, Malta, and Cyprus.

-there have been more peacekeeping missions in Africa than anywhere else in the world. I really don't think you can argue that Africa doesn't get its fair share. There are 7 current missions and 16 that have ended out of a total of 60 current and historical missions.

as I mentioned elsewhere, until Bosnia, peacekeeping missions were only established where a cease-fire agreement was already in place and where both sides agreed to have peacekeeping troops present. Under those rules, it's easy to say that peacekeeping doesn't work, but within those parameters, it mostly has worked.

-UN sanctions were key in helping to end Apartheid in South Africa.

-The UN has provided election oversight and consulting in numerous newly democratizing countries, sometimes with more success than at others. Who do you think helped write the new Iraqi constitution? Take a look at it: it is surely not a US creation, but rather a UN one.

If you're relying on the media for your information, then you are not getting a clear picture of what the UN has done in those 40plus years.

Elizabeth

There are still troops in Cyprus now for at least 30 years. There are troops in the Golan heights peace keeping ??? there is not peace between Israel and its neighbors. Ah Rwanda well that a short little excursion, too little far to late. the Balkans too little to late, and still there standing between the combatants. Not only has the us done nothing to improve the lot of the many many, still growing very oppressed people of this world. It has lined the pockets of may corrupt governments. The UK has no morals, no clout, It is a paper tiger.

What basic issue?? It steps in and feeds some famine victims too little to late usually and does nothing , cannot do nothing to address the cause. for example dictators eliminating opposing religious, ethnic, tribal groups. Governments that are a result of the decolinization you mention in your previous post and governments we continue to do business with and prop up if it suits our political ends. Same old same old . These governments, dictators for the most part can starve, torture and exterminate their citizens at will The UN is powerless. My point exactly powerless.

You may not be trying to justify it merely excuse it. It the old if you don't like the rule it doesn't aply to you.

You need a little in depth reading on that one.

Iraq with be 3 countries not one, this constitutation is a flag waving fairy tale. The Kurds in the north have already carved out their territory which is running very well while the Sunnis and Shiite fight a civil war in the south egged on by foreign terrorists flowing in through those wonderfully porous borders they now have. And I

They were having good success in eradication some diseases but now with disease becoming a political football to appease the voters back home well....and then do not offend big pharma who pay big bucks lobbying and donaing to campagains.

Ruby

You need a little in depth reading on that one.

Iraq will be 3 countries not one, this constitutation is a flag waving fairy tale. The Kurds in the north have already carved out their territory which is running very well while the Sunnis and Shiite fight a civil war in the south egged on by foreign terrorists flowing in through those wonderfully porous borders they now have. And I

They were having good success in eradication some diseases but now with disease becoming a political football to appease the voters back home well....and then do not offend big pharma who pay big bucks lobbying and donaing to campagains.

Ruby

Patrick Stewart always was a Shakespearean actor - and we both think that Jeremy Brett was the best Sherlock Holmes ever!

Great? Time will tell. "Great" is such an ephemeral thing - many outstanding actors still don`t QUITE hit that spot. Laurence Olivier, Orson Welles, Alec Guinness ( and others, of course) all had an undefinable "presence".

Pat P

Not sure - not being a cinema goer these days! I`d rather wait until the DVD is released or it comes on tv than pay a fortune for a ticket after driving drive 12 miles to sit in an uncomfortable seat with popcorn rustling and mobile phones going off! (Yes we DO have a local cinema, although it`s now a "fleapit"!) I feel that we get your films later than you do, though. What`s the latest one out there? I`ll check it out and see if it`s being shown here.

I love period films, too. I also love supernatural ones - by which I mean unseen ghostly ones, not those slime dripping things that seem so popular these days.

Pat P

Slapped legs all round, children! LOLOLOL!

Pat P

NO! Please remember the context. I am neither justifying nor excusing US lack of dues paying. You asked what the reasons were why the US should not leave the UN. I am merely pointing out that if the US left the UN, the UN would lose a significant source of income. That neither justifies nor excuses US behavior. I don't know how else to say it, but please don't read into my words motive that isn't there.

If the UN is such a failure, it is the fault of the five major powers, primarily the US. Why would I try to justify US behavior in that case?

Elizabeth

I do? Ok. Do you have some sources to suggest?

Elizabeth

Found some on my own. Yep, you're right. I was wrong on that one. US kept vetoing sanctions, which simply proves my point about large power responsibility for the powerlessness of the UN, but the large powers don't want it any other way.

Elizabeth

Yes, not good circumstances, but I had a few choices and I chose the Smith movie.

I suppose I don't like the whole genre. I'm always so annoyed when I see something I'm really looking forward to, and midway through the movie there is a fifteen minute car chase! Case in point, "The Bourne Supremacy." I liked the early Bond films because they were fresh, and used ideas not usually seen. These days, with all the gagets and inexpensive electronics I get lost on Bond flicks. At least growing up those devices were cool.

Truth be told, I really don't like either of the actors. Something happened to my opinion of them when they did that magazine spread before Brad was divorced. I thought it was very insensitive. Knowing too much about them really does hinder my ability to suspend disbelief during their movies. They are just people. I wish them well.

The Davinci Code Mission Impossible 3 (ug) Now I'm drawing a complete blank!

Our theaters are beautiful, with reclining chairs and built in cup holders. They are positioned at 29 degrees, so a very steep stadium type seating with plenty of leg room. Mark is 6'3 and needs lots of room. We go in the morning to the first show, which is about $4.50 US, about 3 British pounds.

Did you see The Villiage? M. Knight Shamalan (sp?) has a new film coming out. K-Pax with Kevin Spacey is interesting and I recommend it.

I think we were joking around! :) Imagine that.