Ot painting `enbroidery`

Hi Mirjam,

Your post caught my interest....what do you mean by "painted" embroidery? Does this mean the person paints an illusion or imitations of embroidery stitches on fabric or paper?

There are also printed or painted pictures where one would embroider over specified areas to create texture.....this technique seems popular for silk ribbon embroidery (SRE) and Stumpwork pieces.

Also in quilting, there is a quickie technique where the quilter can draw lines to imitate blanket stitches on fused applique designs.....I've also seen this used in paper crafts to create the look of stitched applique designs.

The part that sounds intriguing to me is the artist who paints over her embroidery stitches? I'm not sure what to think of this yet since I've not seen the results......but for the moment, I think it's odd to paint over perfectly nice stitches but maybe the artist was going for a look or making a statement with such a technique.

However, I understand your point about the curators making claims that they are showing contemporary fiberarts without sticking their necks out too far to do so! So, in this case, they should title such exhibitons as pseudo-fiberarts!

Good Morning Lula

Yes some of the women , just Paint [either with acrylic or other colors] a Look of Xst and other embroidery stiches. So yes it is an illusion of stiches. sometimes on cloth sometimes on paper. somerimes they also glue some real old embroideries here and there to enhance the `Authentic` feel of the work [i.e as if they use old clothes that belonged to somebody ..

I know what you mean have seen this kind of work , while for myself sometimes i used a pieceof cloth that has some print [not aimed for embroidery as this are commercial textiles meant for clothing or upholstery] And than as the artwork requires i can enhance a part with any embelished technique. Ps i have misspelled Rada Amar , forgot ythat she would rather Use a transliteration of her name ,, try and Google Ghada Amer , you will see what i mean somre of her works say ,,, Acrylic And Embroidery on canvas , Embroidery and gel medium on canvas etc. It is a pity that curators see her adding paint to her work as `advancing ` her work .....

I have just seen some contemporary Stumpwork , and i think preffer it without the added painting.

In one the `earliest` `fiberart shows in Israel , that was curated side by side with 4 real fiberart exhibitions,during an international convention for fiberartists. The curator indeed showed , paintings that showed wovenpieces , or painted embroidery even on Blankets. All those painters were EXTREMELY agitatted to see our REAL fiberart , and had on their side a curator /art criticwho wrote an extremely unkind article about us, calling us Girls, saying we played with being artists, While she highly praise artists who Use cloth to clean their brushes. But things have changed, and exhibitions like "Mapressions Loci` broke through. We found some Curators or Museum directors who accepted us as equals, in the artworld, and accepted us as we are ... There were times when the painters Using Imitation stiches wouldn`t show with us ,,, now we have a new generation , using imitation stiches we have no problem that they will be shown with us. Each technique if done from the gut feelings is ok. But i still feel sad when i see how curtaors get `confused` by paint over thread/cloth as a more accepted art form .

Please try and Google her name and tell me what you think, i really have a feeling that she did it , to gain more or easier `acceptance` While the youger ones doing it , here and now , do it more as way. to show Originality etc... And it is not easy to discuss it with a young artist who believes [from her experience with THOSE curators] that this is the key to her success. Thus it is up to us to stand on our opinions and feelings.

And it is also a cultural/ genderal opinion , for some of those Curators, and from them it Engraved in the Young fiberartists minds. Painting is more male`s art work , embroidery a Female`s artwork ... As if nothing changed since 1943 [ my birth year ] when ANNIE ALBERS wrote in her articles the enigmatic question:" Why a man painting an apple is an artist while a woman embroidering one is a craftman?'' If you read her Articles in her book On Designing , you see that some things changed, but too many haven`t.

In openings and exhibitions whenever a fiberartist says ;"I paint with threads ! " i correct her to say the correct technique!!" While whenever a painter points out to me the `Texture` of the canvas under his color , i get `needles` in my back ,,, I was very lucky in findind Curators who dared and even love to show OUR FIBERART , not because of it`s techniques [ which of course have a Bearing on the Content and artistic message] But mainly because they feel it is GOOD ART . I always find it amusing that Fiberart exhibitions Draw much more public than other exhibitions. For some curators it is a new look, They need a refference,i.e. , if they can say ,,"This work" or "a similar work" , has been shown in this and that museum ,,,, they feel safer. A year ++++ ago , i submitted some fiberart to a certain museum , they told me , it was not in their `trend` to show it , imagine my surprise when several months later they showed an exhibition with , waht you and me would call imitation fibers,,, , but whta really ANNOYED me was reading their descriptions of those artworks with FIBERISTIC terms ,,,

I am very lucky to have been able to break through some of those barriers and i am always taking some other fiberartists with me.. It is HARD work. One of the ways to break those barrieres was when i joined the Group of `conventional` artists "Workshop 24/ Beth HaYotzer". Many of them wouldn`t admit at first that my fiberart qualed their painting / sculptering , Than the `usual` step happened , some of them started to Glue cloth onto their painted pictures. Some did it even to mock my work, but slowly they opened up to the Common problems i had as ARTIST. Many were Jeaous or anoyed when i got a serious art critic to write about my work. I never agreed to my work being called 'Soft Sculpture" .. i called it WHAT IT WAS ,,, I am not painting , nore sculpturing I am weaving ' sewing , embroidering , knitting,appliquing

and crocheting my ART. And that is that ,,,,

One of my examples to changes in Curators` attidtude is photography . It used to be Artistic , first Photographers signed their photos as if they were paintings,. Than it became more common , they stopped signing , than ,, Vidio and filming became ART , Every photographer who used Stills or film parts many of which he collects frojm TV, or newspapers , is accepted as ARTIST , many of those works are [costly] lab products ,,,,, but they are ART without hesitation ,,,, But we Fiberartist who Spend HOURS working on our art, our heart beats , moods all make their marks on our ART works ,,, we are not equal ??? why not .... Thus we have to loby , sometimes , speak sometimes, and not agree to some Hibrid Make belief or imitation work. mirjam

Mirjam,

I looked up Ghada Amer's work and biographical info.....after looking at the pictures of her work, my thoughts are similar to yours......maybe by incorporating "fibers" into her work was to make a statement as well as to be more accepted by the mainstream artworld as an artist (painter) rather than as a bona fide fiberest who wouldn't get as much respect by critics or buyers. Collage or multi-media art seems to be very popular again......Amer's work would fall into this catergory very neatly.

Some of Amer's paintings look interesting to me for the textures but the majority of her work doesn't look much different from other contemporary artists using threads & fibers.....there are artists who include bits & pieces of old or recycled needlework to make statements often about the plight of women in today's world.....

In general terms I write the following......

This all goes back to gender bias! The way most of our societies evolved....where survival was often dependent on greater physical strength.

Male offspring were preferred for many reasons, much having to do with economics....there was a need for strong sons especially in hunting and agricultural societies......this insured male offspring would have the most advantages, better food, care, being educated and so on.

Females were secondary, often thought of as liabilities in that the family were actually raising females for another family when married off, not to mention having to provide dowries in many cases. Bottomline.....male offspring was a more worthwhile investment compared to a female!

These types of attitudes have enslaved females for centuries and affected & touched every part of our female lives. An elderly male friend made the comment that he noticed (post WW II) any type of job that employed mostly females was guaranteed to be low paying!

Any type of creativity women achieved were considered mere hobbies as no worth was attached to these pastimes....afterall, Mom, Grandma, etc., always stitched on something....they did "busywork" as idle hands were frowned upon!

During courtship, young women would show off, basically compete against other females in the "marriage market".......these young women would do dainty, lady like hobbies, playing the piano, a little watercolor painting, dainty, decorative needlework in order to look even more charming, decorative and accomplished (useful) to potential suitors!

How many of us have heard the remark and even guilty of thinking or saying....."I can make it myself (cheaper)" upon seeing a beautifully done piece of needlework or any other artistic endeavor? That women themselves never thought what they created to be worthwhile......that most women wouldn't dream of spending good money on another woman's creations since they could make it themselves?

It's too bad womens' handiwork, artistic creations is still low on the economic scale.....today, there seems to be a divide amongst women too......where some women have attitudes superior to other women, such as the world of fiberarts........ironic isn't it?

Hallo Lula , Ghada Amer was first known as an embroidered , at least that was what she showed in Venetia ,, On the 23rd we rea going to have a Gallery Talk in Um-El -Fahem , and amongst other discussed matters i think we might touch that question/dillema , about mixed thread with paint or the paint with threads , in order to gain more attention and be more accepted by the main strean art establishment. Your Historical writing is very detaioled and to the point. And what Bugs me is that many of the younger `fiberartists` = mainly the ones painting embroidery , as well as `conventional` painters who now , `smelling the trend` , start to add a thread here and bead tthere to their painted work , and use it as a laddeer to jump over the authentic fiberartrists. Realy Harm the fiberart as well as many other Hard Earned finnaly accepted ideas, about Female work about fiberart , about what is Authentic , true and comes from the heart. Working about something because it is a trend, makes it easier , but eventually will jump into their faces . this works won`t last over time. I am also not happy with some people`s ideas that this is a transitional kind of art. At least with the girls i know , part of the problem is that there were /are more [male] painter teachers in the system. The few male teachers in the system are more into Fashion or Design , They are not thinking Female Fiberart. Somehow the fewer Female Fiberartist Teachers were less influential. Some of my colleagues say it is because of ecomnomic pressures i think it is because deep down the culture still puts men in a higher position than women. Other problems are Semantic problems. Both in Hebrew and Arabic. As they are in Other languages. When Mr J`amil Ghanayim translated my Catalog to Arabic , he said the langugae missed many Textile and Art terminologies, Thus he the translator into English and me had long discussions. Every time he misses a term, i would Explain the technique to him in accurate details, from first to last step. Not having proper terminologies reduces the capeability to make it more respectful in it`s own culture. Thus the young artists tend to Paint their Embroideries , thinking they make it more respectful. It is also very hard for women to make a techniques that is mostly thought of as Female work, into a More generaly respected technique, if their society hasn`t given them an equal position, it will come , but it is still in it`s first steps. Thus Using the supposed male techinque to portray the supposed Female technique , might seem to many the way to make changes... I am not sure about that . But what works in one culture = Judy Chicago`s decision to use Needle Work when she could not compete with the man who worked in wood , becuase she got needle skills as a girl, and thus she said Let`s Use my Strong Ability {see "through The Flower " My struggle as a woman Artist , By Judy Chicago] .Might not work in our local Culture[s].?? i wonder. I have refused several invitations to show my art `under any other name but Fiberart, and manged to do so. But i understand artists who want to exhibit, and won`t wait. each should do her own. mirjam