Re: Baseball Has Begun!

On 3/6/09 3:33 PM, "lucretia borgia" wrote:

Well, in the movies I tend to think it is about profit. But, at the large sports venues, the searches of backpacks, etc is about security. Especially in the DC area. There is a limit on the size of satchels which can be taken into the arena through regular entrances. The security at the entrance generally does a quick look inside - essentially for heavy items - glass bottles, weapons, and will feel the bootom of the bag. When I bring knitting in, I use a lightweight fabric drawstring back, or a very small backpack - they do a look, feel - any questions I'll just say - camera inside - cause they feel the heavy, hard object. If it's a more full-size pack, then you have to go to a special entrance where they take the time to look through. If political VIPs are in the building, then the hand-held scanners are used as you enter. If you don't want to be searched, then you don't carry anything that isn't on your person, in a pocket. And, honestly, unless I'm carrying knitting - that's what I do - slip ID, $$, in a pocket, with ticket, tissues, and that's it. At the same time - there are notices at the entries about being subject to search, as well as the what you can't bring in - so if you don't agree, they're quite happy to have you not enter. If you were to make a big stink about having your bag checked, like the airport, you'd likely find yourself taken aside and questioned. It's your choice to attend and deal with the restrictions, or not.

Most of the issues here with security at large sports venues have really come into being in the post 9-11 days. And when there are active terrorism threat alerts - beyond the norm.

Ellice

Disregarding scoring terminology such as wides, fours and sixes; and disregarding technicalities such as LBW, slips, long stop, silly mid off, chinamen, googlies and the like the basic rules of cricket are very simple: You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each player that's in the side that's in goes out, and when that player is out s/he comes in and the next player goes in until s/he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get players still in and not out. When a player goes out to go in, the players who are out try to get him/her out, and when s/he is out s/he goes in and the next player in goes out and goes in. There are two other people called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the players who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the players have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the players have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game. Simple really!

That's right...don't forget silly mid-on and silly mid-off!

Hey, I can sell you a couple of bridges if you really believe all that!

The movie theatres just have teenage ushers taking tickets. Sports stadiums, at least here, have paid security guards who do not hesitate to confiscate anything forbidden and toss it in the large trashcans conveniently located right next to them. It is in part to keep liquor and weapons out of the stadium, but they will toss your sandwich too.

Dawne

You live free, but a movie theater is private property.

Elizabeth

Well, since for the last 12 years I've regularly attended sporting events in arenas in the DC area - at least 40 times a year, I know that I'm speaking from experience. What about you - just working from the normal cynical POV? As well, we are friends with the gentleman who is responsible for the overall building security for all events at Verizon Center, and DH has known him for a good 20 years (older, retired Air Force officer), and we have several friends that work on the staff both for Washington Sports, which owns this arena, as well as the former (now gone) Capital Center, the CAPS staff, oh, and the security at the Nationals Stadium.

I've been going to sporting events in this area for over 20 years, and can absolutely see the difference in how the security has been done during that time. Going from about nothing, except when a political VIP is in, to extremes of everyone is checked and wanded during the immediate post 9/11 and a few other high terror alerts, to what seems a modicum of care with restrictions on large satchels/backpacks and the current search. Since I've personally been through as I hold my bag for the quick search, I'd say you have nothing to sneer about implying that my observations are false and naïve. FWIW, I've been to similar venues, events in other US and Canadian cities, and I know that the standards in this area, including Baltimore, are a bit tighter than in most other places, but not all. Given that I've said I understand the food into theatres & venues is a money issue I'm not sure why you think explaining the security procedures is such a demonstration of naivety and ignorance. Maybe check out Bell Centre or Air Canada Centre when the PM is in attendance as an example.

So, hmmmm, let's see - because your view of personal space and allowing for any potential security measures is different than my explanation of what is done, I must be a naïve idiot? Nice attitude for discussion. You live in a little, non-urban environment - regardless of your life experience. So, your "experience" of large event venues, security measures, and how us sheep respond in the last 10 years would seem to be the more naïve. We're not talking about flying to England -that's a whole different set for complaints.

You don't have to like any of these things. But answering someone's comments of explanation by insulting them hardly lends credence to your commentaries, and does yourself a disservice, IMHO.

Ellice

I was not 'sneering' at you personally - however, how many sports events have suffered 'acts of terrorism' ? I believe NA is indulging in a fear factor that is unwarranted. No matter what is done, when and if the mood takes some fanatics to do something, they will succeed. So if you travel by air, even train, go to large venues then accept there is a slight possibility but leave the people wishing to attend to attend without hassle.

In the interim think of the jobs all the fear driven 'security' has created.

There are two separate discussion points in this thread. The profit motive is one which really gets to me, as I learn from reading the daily newspaper that EVERY PENNY of profit made from concessions in the Louisiana Superdome - parking, food, EVERYTHING - goes to the local football team, no matter what event is taking place there. The footballers only play about 12 games a year, but the team owner has threatened to take his team away if he does not get all of this from all of the events, plus the proceeds of the local hotel-motel tax, plus more millions of dollars from this non-rich state. I would be just delighted if the Saints moved away, I personally feel they are a luxury the city cannot afford.

The second point, security, is not just about terrorists. There have been several instances in the papers in the past about unhappy (drunk?) fans in many different cities throwing bottles or full cans of beverages at the players and officials, which is why it is no longer permissible to take anything heavy into the stadium.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans

I hope that one thing hard times are going to do, is axe the ridiculous salaries these players are paid. The whole thing is out of control.

Oh no! Tell me it isn't so after all the scorn the football and baseball people poured on 'soccer fans' - it was not the soccer fans who did it of course, but rather the hooligans who used the venue.

My BIL went every Saturday of his life to the Pompey football game until latterly, perhaps it is a sign of the times and the people.

I understand that you think this. I don't think it's really a fear mentality - or all these events wouldn't be so full. Rather, people look upon it as precaution.

Probably most people find this in the ounce of prevention category, as opposed to the huge scale of cost if something terrible were to happen. At this point, security in an arena is not such a huge inconvenience- unless there is some political big wig - then it's a PITA. And when that is happening - there will be advance notice to people to arrive early due to extra security.

Certainly with the airline situation. But, arenas have had security for a long time. IME, seems the additional staff is pretty minimal, more that they have to do something else, as opposed to standing around.

And, FWIW, I have seen people injured with flying bottles before the no bringing in stuff. Even flying subway sandwiches - pretty stupid. I think the prohibition with liquids is really about limiting alcohol - it takes effort to get really plastered buying beers/booze at an arena or stadium as they do cut off sales before the last period/quarter. But it gets done - and is plenty ugly.

Ellice

The profit thing is irksome. Different arenas have different deals depending on ownership, etc. Here, in the arena, the owner is that which owns ths Wizards, but not the CAPS/Mystics. So since that split we've had to listen to the team woes as they weren't making money from concessions. They got some split from the concessions for their events - which is usually the situation. And their souvenir sales - with some portion going to the arena owner - like any tenant/landlord situation. But, I think the big deal is they weren't getting much (if anything) from the food/drink, or the club seats and boxes. Sounds like a pretty tangled situation with the football team in NO.

Exactly part of it. Of course, it's fun having to get security when you need them - for fights, drunks, etc.

Ellice

While I am rabid in my feeling that we pay way too much for entertainment, and those that provide it, it does conflict me a bit since we do pay for tix. With Football especially - they are comparatively paid less than the other sports - baseball and basketball are the worst with guaranteed contracts. Football players have a shorter span of playing time, and regularly end up with debilitating, life-long physical/medical issues. But, the thing is their salary cap for teams is pretty much exactly what the Television contract brings to each team - not ticket sales. So, TV pays the salaries for them, and also Basketball - close in baseball, but not quite. All the rest - profit. One of the reasons that hockey teams have more of a struggle - they don't have the TV deal so individual teams were relying upon their own sales, etc. Since the lock-out, having the salary cap has been a good thing which lets the team do revenue sharing, and bring about some relative parity.

My DB (who has team owners and pro-athlete frineds) thinks that I'm too harsh about the salary thing for actors, etc. It does take a special skill, and I can accept that most successful entertainers, athletes do have exceptional talent/skill. I just think that they're financially rewarded way out of perspective. Who knoww, maybe the US will go back to a really high tax rate for really highly paid (top .5 %) people - as in the UK and elsewhere.

Well, our friends who are very active with DC United, the soccer team, and the CAPS (hockey) do say it really is much rowdier, at the soccer games. They do a big tailgate thing pre-game, and run one of the big fan groups. But, they've told us it's been scarey during some games with people getting crushed against the front, wildly rampaging fans. Harder for security to contain.

At hockey, we've had some fights in the stands around us - generally with idiots who are not regular attendees, or worse, really drunk guys in suits. Or someone in on corporate tix. And have had some beer bottles attempted to be thrown at the ice that landed on us - with beer in them. Very nice. And some just really obnoxious drunks who were dangerously drunk - taken out by security. One guy in our row (corporate seats) - actually opened his cell phone and speed dialed his bail bondsman - "making sure he had his back 'cause he was going to get into it with some CAPS fans" - Pretty funny (our friends right behind the guy leaned over to tap us as he heard the phone call).

Absolutely sadly true. Common civility and manners are woefully lacking in general. I still haven't figured out how it is appropriate to scream, chant obscenities at a sports event - especially with children around.

Ellice

A re-run of ancient Rome and the gladiators perhaps.