Grip to bring the rim in?

The best advice I can give for throwing, is experiment, and experiment some more. Every potter has a different technique, you have to find yours. If something works, do it. If it does not, try something else. Just gradually learning the feel of the clay and how to manipulate it with your hands (which after all are different from anyone elses). Annemarie

Hi Annemarie

I agree and that's what I do for the most part. My centering isn't quite like any of the grips in the books, but it works well for me now. Same with how I pull up and such, but the thing is....

When I first started throwing, I learned that grip and it worked great for me, but I have totally forgotten how to put my fingers - and now end up ruining rims if I try my ideas. The woman who showed me the grip is not available to ask.

Marianne

i think bringing in the top is much like the rest of the pot - "collaring", but you would do an extra refinement of the lip after the collaring at the top.

see ya

steve

Hi Steve

No - it is a very different grip from the one I use to collar in. Collaring in, I do with fingers touching at 3-4 spots on the pot, but this special grip for bringing the rim in was rather different.

When I use the normal collaring in grip, I can carefully bring the rim in somewhat, but I am wanting to make some closed pots that I can later cut to divide into pot and lid - or leave closed for other projects I am thinking of.

Marianne

ok - i'd call that more of a "lifting inward".

when you collar, the wall thickens. then you do a typical lift, but exagerate toward center - not up for more height.

as it reaches that center point, for me, it's very much a collar stroke.

see ya

steve

Marianne,

i think there is no "special grip" for what you want to do, or for centering or for any other thing you do on the wheel. I learned to center and throw originally from Bob Schmitz, but in the meantime, i do all sorts of things which work for *me*. I don't think there is one given recipe for doing anything on the wheel, what it takes is practice, practice, practice, and to see what works for *you*. There are many ways to skin a cat, and there are even more ways to throw on a wheel. Of course, a teacher shows you his way, i do that too, but it doesn't mean that this is the only way to do it. You have to experiment, and once you are really familiar with the material, you will know what grip is good for you. All these things with meditation, listening to a certain music,..... is fine, if that is what turns you on. To me clay is a material like any other and i want to become proficient in handling it (i am in the meantime). One hint to centering, which i am not sure anybody mentioned: When you think it is centered, when your hand runs very smoothly around the clay, don't let go too suddenly, take your hands away veeeeeery slowly, or the clay will follow your hands and be out of whack again.

Keep at it, Monika

-- Monika Schleidt snipped-for-privacy@schleidt.org

if you wish to write me a mail, remove the number from my user name

OK rims, Hmm so difficult when you can't demonstrate. when lifting, always go right to the top and then compact the rim with left thumb and first finger either side of the rim and first finger of right hand compacting down. Shaping is just a carry on of shaping when lifting, pushing a little harder in the inside if you want it flaring out, or on the outside if you want it collaring. Another trick (taught by Takeshi Yusada) is great. If the rim is off at all, using your right hand (for right handed people) you put you first finger in the pot, the others out and pressing down the "crutch" of your first two fingers onto the rim, while squeezing in to the top part of the walls with your fingers. It will fix up any wobbles or dodgyness that might have happened. Like I said it is so difficult to talk and not demostrate. Rims always benifit from smoothing with a chamois, or for cheaper a strip of wet folded newspaper. Good luck.

The collaring in process for me starts with the cylinder, next (and I think this may be what Marianne is looking for) I hold my right hand almost like a claw over the pot rim, place the 1st and 3rd fingers against the outside wall with the 2nd finger against the inside wall, and with the clay running smoothly through those fingers, *lean* the rim inwards up to and beyond 45 degrees, helping the process with the left had. Once that is done I make a circle with my thumbs and forefingers around the cylinder below the inward leaning edge and tightening the ring as I raise it upwards bring the rest of the cylinder in to the rim diameter.

I hope this is fairly clear.

Steve Bath UK

In article , Bubbles writes

In article , Xtra News writes

I sometimes use a piece of fairly thick polythene bag instead of a chamois

Yes - I have been doing that and it helps to do it as much as every pull for me (being the unsteady newbie I am! Hehe!)

I tried that, and what happens is that I have so far in to go to get everything right in the middle, that the top edge becomes wavy on me.

Like making two legs with your first two fingers and "sitting on it"? Sounds a good idea! I will try that!

That's the trouble with discussing a very practical pursuit in text! HEhe! But I think I know what you mean.

Somewhere, some time, I got hold of this really thin sponge. It is easily folded or bent over e.g. a rim and works great for now. I will grab me a chamois when I finally find one! Haven't specifically looked for one, but I bet they have it somewhere near the car polish :-)

Thank you! I am having much better luck for questioning and discussing. Thanks to everyone for their great support and information!

Marianne

I'm printing this, in hopes that it becomes clearer when I read it and do it at the same time ;-)

That's what I was thinking of, though - a special grip which helps you bring the rim in, without it distorting (like it wants to). I will try the 3 fingers, though that's not exactly the one I used to use - but it is similar! I just wish I could remember the one I used, as it worked a dream, always without distortion, and then I was a REAL newbie newbie!

Hmmmm - almost. At the end you do what I call "collaring in", right? And then, if you want the rim even narrower, you repeat until you get it so close to the middle that you can close it?

Thanks for the input, Steve! You guys are great!

Marianne

In article , Bubbles writes

Right, that's what I've always known it as.

Right again.

When I was first taught throwing, I was always told to start opening and lifting a bottle or closed form with that shape in mind, and to begin the closing/collaring process almost from the beginning. My Tutor's words were: *so that the clay knows from the start where it's got to go*. Strangely, making those forms is always easier if I follow that advice! But then as we know, clay does seem to have a kinetic memory built in; watch the way tall narrow forms carry on twisting during the firing, especially to stoneware temps, and the corners of cut slabs distort while drying!

Just now I am basically training myself to lift cylindars - but it gets a little boring, and I don't need that many vases ;-)

So, I thought I would close the top of some of them to see if I could make some covered jars. The thing is, I can't make the cylindar narrower than my hand! So, I have to close the top in at the end in any case.

Your description of the grip has me half remembering the grip I learned. I think I turned my left hand palm up, but I can't remember much more! Hehe!

Mmmm! I was just reading about this in Vince Pitelka's book! Clay does have memory, which you can especially have problems with if you roll slabs, since you often only roll them in one direction. I guess when you throw, you are actually also moving the clay in only one direction. (well - up and towards you)

I will be making some slab-built oven dishes soon, and have decided that I will roll out the slabs too thick in one direction, then turn them 90 degrees and roll again - to avoid cracking during drying, especially.

Marianne

This could get complicated!

Re Slab rolling (not using a machine).

I was taught to roll from the centre outwards in both directions, then turn the slab 90 degrees and repeat the action, then turn it 45 degrees and roll as before, then back to 90 and roll, then 45 again, and so on 'till it's the right thickness. This DOES virtually eliminate warping and cracking, especially if you *release* the clay from the cloth each time you change rolling direction (and of course use a grogged clay),

For smaller slabs I wedge a large-ish lump of clay and then wire cut the slabs from the bottom, using guides, and lifting off the main lump to remove the cut slab.

Steve Bath UK

In article , Bubbles writes

Watching Royce McGlashen (well known NZ master potter) make a slab is something else. He scoffs at the need for a slab roller or even a rolling pin :o) Some of his work

he does slab teapots too. He makes his slabs by slapping his clay against a table and turning and slapping and turning a slapping. It is very quick, very precise and fun to try.

i only do slab this way. i actually sold my slab roller - never used by me - because slapping out a slab is so fast & easy.

in a way it's like tapping a bowl to center before trimming. if it's easy for you, that's the only way you do it.

it's also amaizingly easy to get REALLY thin clay this way!

see ya

steve