Weird lip when pulling up

Every time you lift, compact the rim before you lift again.

To annmarie's excellent advice I might add:

While pulling, if you are using your fingertips, stop right there. Use the "side" of your finger instead, as in that part on the side of your index finger between the first and middle knuckle, both inside and outside the pot. Results in a smoother pull also, gives you more control over the pressure you exert as well (more sensitive). Just try to keep those finger sides parallel to each other as you pull up. And lock your thumbs together!

Don't pull too much at once, that results in too thin a lip at the top ,which also causes "the wobbles". Instructors can say what they want about "three pulls and you're done"...I've found that to be horse manure. If four or five pulls is what you need, go for it. It's YOUR technique you're trying to establish. Nuance can come later, and the number of pulls you use will decrease with experience. Go for it, and good luck!

almost to the rim, I ease way up on the pressure because depending on what I'm making I usually like a thicker rim especially for bowls because as you rib out your bowls your thick rims will automatically will be thinned enough. It also gives you a little "play" with a thick rim. But not for mugs. You don't want thick rims on mugs, just medium. Also, like someone said, compress your rim after each pull, that also helps to keep things under control and I like to use a small piece of chamoie (I know it's misspelled) to smooth and compress the rim. About long fingernails-I found they get in the way. If I need to make a galley for a lidded pot, I use a popsicle stick or some other wooden tool. I clip my nails as close as I can at least once a week. Sandi

Its not the rim, it is as if I am bringing a roll of clay up with me.

Marianne

I turn as dry as possible and find that I get too much friction if I don't use just the tips of my fingers. I do lock my hands together as soon as it is possible without damaging the lip of the work.

Had them! Good to know what does it. Some books have a bit about what you have done wrong, but if you know of one book called something like "everything you can do wrong while turning, and how to avoid it" - let me know :-)

Thanks!

Thanks so much for your input!

Marianne

This sounds as if you have cut into the bottom of the clay that is next to the wheel and have 'rolled' up some separated clay. If I remember correctly, you had stated that you have long nails. I would try using a sponge to throw with on the outside. Just use a small sponge held in your hand, push in on the bottom so that you have firm contact with the body where the 'foot' of the piece will be (that is below the floor of you piece). On the inside you are going to push out til you have a nice bump that sits over the pushed in outer edge. Have you hands locked and 'ride' this S shape up the side of the pot with the pressure decreasing as you feel the pull becoming 'softer'. For my first pull of the sides I do NOT form this S shape. Instead I basically am compressing the sides and making a uniform thickness from bottom to top.

Yeah you should be bringing a roll of clay with you, so difficult to explain without demonstrating! Even careful lifting and compacting of the rim every time is important. Now turning is using tools to finish a pot off when leather hard, usually upside down. Throwing is the centring and lifting of soft clay. You should keep the clay well lubricated, not with clean water though, with slip (water with plenty of clay in it) This seals the surface of the clay so that the clay body does not get substantially wetter. If you use clean water the clay quickly absorbs it and then becomes too wet to be easy to work. You do need to throw with it well lubricated though or you can end up with problems. This could actually be you problem. Difficult to know without seeing you working.

Hi AnneMarie :-)

Well - I am bringing too much of a roll with me - so much so, that it loosens from the rim when I get that high. I am NOT putting too much pressure on, though

MY BAD!!! I meant when I was throwing. It gets a bit confusing when I usually talk about all this in Swiss German! Hehe!

I mostly don't use clean water - I try to retrieve the water that has "slid out" onto the wheel. I found this technique mostly by myself. My first teacher taught me to use way too much water. My present teacher turns dry (as soon as the piece is centered) and I find that more or less impossible - not when I spend so much time on "perfecting" the piece.

So slip seals the clay! Very interesting and something I haven't read in any of my books! But I am very proud of my "gathering dish" under my wheel - there are just a few splatters in it even after turning several pieces. Thanks for confirming that this is a GOOD habit I am having here! :-)

I do find, though, that I tend to "rub" the lubrication off as I am pulling, so that I get too much friction against the piece - could that be because I am pressing too hard? If I don't, it will take me 20 pulls to get the piece the height I want it! Or should I make the bottom wall thinner before I start pulling up?

Thanks for your advice! It really is great to be able to ask these questions when I have them!

Marianne

Keep your hands lubricated by wiping against each other often. Also, keep the back of the inside hand lubricated and sometimes the arm above it. A dry hand or arm can grab the inside of the pot an twist it.

If I don't, it will take me 20 pulls to get the piece

No, do not make the wall at the bottom thinner before pulling up. Try to keep the walls the same thickness all the way up for the first few pulls. Then thin the wall a small amount for the top third, then the middle third and then reach down to the bottom third. This keeps the strength of the wall below the part that you are thinning. If you thin the bottom first and then the top the bottom will twist and ripple.

A practice exercise: start with 5lb (1.86kg) of stoneware clay and pull a cylinder in which your hand fits easily. At first you will be able to get to a height of 10in (25cm) without much of a problem. But your goal is to get to 12in (30cm). You can only do this if you have even walls the whole way up. The lesson is control not speed.

Good luck - enjoy Gene

It isn't my hands that are the problem, it is at the point of contact - even though I "cream" the object in with slurry before I start the pull.

Yes, thanks! I have definitely had twist and ripple! YUCK! Will try with your method.

Waste a good 2 kilos of clay on an experiment - repeatedly? My heart aches! Hehe! I'm still at the stage where I only manage to get good results now and then, though I do feel I am getting more control.

I will try it, though - having more or less figured out how to reclaim clay now :-)

Marianne

Not wastage, practise. You can recycle the clay. Just dry it off a bit and rewedge it. Practise is the only way, really!!!

I advise again that you try throwing with a small sponge on the outside wall.

After the initial centering and first pull to 'even' the thickness of the wall some people throw dry. It feels a bit odd and you really do have to rib off all of the water and slurry so that you don't have points that 'grab' but it does give a more firm clay to pull with and a body that holds it's shape (doesn't slump back down) if you are pulling a tall piece.

Everyone really does find their own way of throwing and as has been said practice is the only way to do it. You won't know your limits if you don't push pass them. The wonderful thing about clay is that it is so recyclable. If you can make yourself a small plaster board it will make recycling much easier and faster.

I have my wheel out on the terrace, as there is no room for it inside. It was so cold this week, that I didn't turn a single thing, but I do try to practice at least twice a week - and I do feel I am getting that little bit better each time. The tip I read on here about kneading the clay before turning was wonderful - now centering isn't such a pain and I can spend more time actually turning :-)

Yeah, but where should I put it? I have some old pillow-cases which I will hang the clay in, as they are much easier to put away when not in use - and it doesn't matter as much if I get a few raindrops on them :-)

Thanks!

Marianne

Ok, keep in mind that I'm giving advice that I have yet to follow (because I'm too lazy and I still have a studio where I can use their plaster wedging board) ... but - a wedging board for recycling your clay does not have to be large (18"X18"X3" - or even smaller) and it doesn't care it if sits out in the rain (if you want to keep it dry so that it sucks up water from the clay just cover it with plastic). Someone here posted that they made hollow spaces in their board by gluing down small paper cups in an egg carton type fashion in the upside-down box that was to hold the plaster (with 1" between cups and above cups to lip) which made the board lighter and still useable. This is what I will be trying if I ever get to it.... I'm mostly just saying that it is an idea to keep in the back of your mind if you ever want to play in that direction. I also say a bat that is supposed to be even better than plaster that could be used... It is called a Hydrobat by M.C. Lueders Co.... a 14" one is all of $16.... Sorry I did not translate to your numbers....

Just some thoughts. I think I have just convinces myself not to crowd up my limited space with a board and to try the Hydrobats instead... I will let you know how they work if you care.

It isn't a matter of weight, it is really a matter of space. I have so much stuff already, I don't have anywhere to put it nicely away. Thus, the pillow-cases will be my choice for now - simply because they are easy to store.

I'm always up for info on new "gadgets"! :-)

Marianne

I know what you mean, it was so cold here in Austria too, that my heater turned on! in July!!! Whereat in Switzerland do you live? The tip I read on here about kneading the clay before

.....You mean "throwing", turning is finishing the pot when it is leatherhard , on the bottom. (in german you say something like turning for throwing too, so i understand your confusion.)

I just held a weekend seminar here and realized, how hard it is to put it into words. You show somebody how to center, you tell them, how to center and still, they do something else, and you sit next to them and don't really know, what it is they are doing wrong. A weekend is too short, they mostly handbuild, so it's ok.

Monika

Yes - but now it is so much better! Are you having many thunderstorms over your way? We have a few, but nothing bad except the hail a couple of weeks ago.

I live on the outskirts of Zurich city in Zurich kanton.

Hehe! Yeah! I usually talk about this in German, so I get a bit mixed up.

Besides - _throwing_ clay is what I do into my recycle bucket when the piece has collapsed on the wheel! ;-)

I've read pages and pages on how to center and have tried many different techniques. I think a lot of my trouble has to do with clay that is not kneaded well enough. Some pieces just don't want to center, no matter what I try on them - while others seem to like me. I've also had 2 different teachers try to show me how to center. I will ask my present teacher to show me again in the fall. At the moment, I am so busy hand-building stuff and glazing stuff, that I really don't want to "waste" a whole 3-hour lesson (takes a lot of clean-up as well!) on learning to center, since I do manage it from time to time (though the original kilo of clay might only end up being 300-400 grams finished product! Hehe!)

Marianne

If you want to wheelform, you *have* to know how to center, or your work will always be out of alignment. It's not a waste to learn, if you plan to do wheel work, and not only handbuilding. Believe me...

Sometimes it helps to close your eyes while centering, and just feel when it snaps into place.

Try alternating the pressure down on the clay with one hand, with the pressure in with the other hand. Back and forth. Just small adjustments.

When it feels centered, carefully remove your hands at the same time, or you'll push it out of center with the hand you left in place.

It's really hard to write about centering.

Deb R.

I have been working on the wheel for quite some time. Although I might spend something like a half hour centering, a half hour throwing and an hour or so turning, I do get stuff that is quite thin and light, but it is sometimes a bit "off whack" centering-wise (though nothing an "amateur" would be able to detect). I have a wonderful disk to put on top of the wheel for turning - it has three handles that hold the piece. I don't have to use wet clay to do my turning, I can take the piece of and examine it and put it back on and continue - the center is always there. It is a WONDERFUL "gadget". Today I turned a piece that is so thin, it weighs almost nothing and I am nervous about transporting it to the workshop to be fired!

I haven't tried closing my eyes while centering, but have tried to close my eyes to feel IF the piece is centered. I will try this tip! Thanks!

For larger pieces, I found a great tip on the internet. A company that sells clay. They suggest a technique of centering from the top down with the edge of the right hand - while having the left hand steadying and the thumbs interlocked. For getting the piece in somewhat center fast, I have found this method smart on larger pices, but not so easy on smaller ones.

Believe me - I have noticed the consequences of removing my hands too fast! Hehe! There is a singed spot on the roof over my wheel to prove it! ;-)

I think that's it. It is just such a practical thing, that writing about it doesn't really work. I will keep on keeping on until the weather gets too cold to work out on my terrace. Then I will be renting space at my teacher's workshop, and I will ask her if we can do one or two special lessons just the two of us with the wheel. She is a really good teacher, so I think that might bring me right. But at the moment - just sitting out on the terrace with the birdsong and maybe the radio in the background - enjoying the lovely weather and "becoming one with the clay" is such a joy in itself, that I don't want to "waste time" indoors :-)

Thanks for the tips!

Marianne