Basic wheel throwing question - centering

What a bum of an instructor!

If you search on

for "clay center" you can find a number of pages with pictures and descriptions of how to center. I just looked at a couple, but looks pretty good. Remember to brace your left elbow on your hip or leg. Your left hand should not go woogity-woogity at all.

A couple of other thoughts:

1) use lots of water 2) use soft clay

Learning to center is like riding a bike. It takes some practice and at some point, it will just seem to come to you.

deg

Let's see if I can clarify how *I* would center. First of all, as a beginner, don't try a large piece of clay. Start with about a pound or pound and a half. Be sure it's well wedged, and fairly soft. Hard clay is hard to center. When you've wedged it well, pat it into a round ball.

Place it in the center of your bat with a good "whack" to start attaching it to the bat. Squeeze a bit of water over it with your sponge, and wet your hands. Start the wheel, and lean into the clay a bit from the top to attach it to the bat.

Press into the base of the lump of clay with the heel of your left hand, while anchoring your left elbow to your body to keep it strong. Press downwards on the top of the ball of clay with an equal force to the left hand, using your right hand in a fist (use the soft pad of the side of your fist--not the fingers).

Keep your hands wet, and give a little squeeze of water over the ball of clay with your sponge to be sure it's not drying out.

Keep the back and forth pressures of the top and sides going until you feel the clay kind of snap into place.

Don't stop the wheel with your hands still in place. Be sure to slowly and evenly remove them so that you don't throw your clay out of center again.

The problems you mentioned with coning up sound like you squeezed too hard and broke the clay off in the middle. The problems with the clay coming off in your hands sounds like the ball of clay maybe was placed on the bat too far off center to begin with and you were "shaving" the clay with your hands instead of centering. Also clay peeling off in your hands could be that sharper parts of your hands are doing the work instead of the padded parts of your hands.

It's hard to describe this in writing, so I hope I've been a bit helpful. Centering is a hard thing to get right at first, but it's vital. Keep practicing! Maybe your teacher can sit with you and place your hands for you. Oh, that reminds me--if you're using an electric wheel, try to sit as close to it as you possibly can. Get the wheel right between your legs, so that your head and body are practically directly over the wheel head. People tend to throw in the direction of their nose, so you want your nose to be as vertical as possible to the top of your clay.

Deb R.

Those are all good suggestions, but first let's get to the start of it. Which hand are you (right or left?) The wheel should rotate the "opposite" way if you are leftie (counter clockwise). For my beginners class, I too couldn't center to save my life. Six two hour long classes into the semester, still no luck. On a class break, the (very frustrated) instructor came out to talk to the very frustrated student (me) about it. I was smoking a cigarette. He watched me for a time as we talked, and when class started, came back in, threw the reversing switch on the wheel, and said "Now...center" Boom! Like someone hit me with a cattle prod. Immediate results. Check your wheel direction!

Also, when you center, tuck your primary hand's elbow (left or right) into your (same side) thigh. That puts your whole body behind it. You have to control the clay, don't let it control you.

Don't squeeze the clay. Press it on the side (primary hand), using the other hand to make sure you don't press it too far. Squeezing is for pinch pots, not centering. Press toward the center, not at an angle. Imagine a "T" with the top of the "T" in a horizontal line at the furthest edge of the ball of clay. You should be pressing along the shaft of the "T", toward the center of the ball of clay.

When you release (to rewet your hand, for example), don't just "let go". Slowly(!!!) back off on the pressure (both hands) until the clay is freely rotating on it's own. Clay remembers the last thing you did to it. Releasing it quickly means that all the force you were putting on it is going to cause it to wobble. And the centrifugal force of the wheel is going to do all it can to help that wobble.

Take your time. The clay has been around for thousands of years :>) You're trying to make it do something new in a matter of minutes. It is set in it's ways, and needs time to adjust to the changes... and so do you.

Hope that helps, Wayne in Key West

While I agree with what you say, I am left handed but have always thrown on a wheel going anti-clock (much to the amusement of most potters). It is possible to throw with the wheel head going the western way. I was told that Japanise potters throw clockwise......but cant confirm that. If this is the case that would imply that the wheel is going backwards if right handed and Japanise.

Anyway.... back to the problem..... any teacher that looses interest or patience with a beginner should not be teaching, 5 minutes giving a beginner one to one tuition is probably worth hours spent "self teaching" and ending up with a disillusioned student.

Kind Regards

Kevin.

I'm righthanded but throw lefthanded, I need my "smart hand" inside the bowl. Les

funny you should say that....for bowls I do the same thing, throw right handed for the same reason. I am ambidextrous, I write lefthanded but most other things I do righthanded. Pottery a bit of both. Regards Kevin.

Wow, you guys are fantastic, and you responded so quickly! Thanks so much.

As to the left handed/right handed issue, I was wondering about that. I'm right handed, but there was evidence early in my life that I could have originally been left handed or ambidextrous. A couple of elementary school teachers enfored the right handed-ness, and I've never, ever been able to tell my right from my left. Moreover, there are a few things I naturally do with my left hand.

I know I'm an extreme beginner, but I can tell you that the hand positioning versus how the wheel is turning seems fairly unnatural to me, like I'm helping the clay stay off center.

However, a lot of the suggestions mentioned here make more sense than what was going on in class, so now I've got lots of stuff to try.

I've printed out the web page mentioned here, and I've also got a couple of books from the library.

I've gotten some great advice from you all here. Now, I'm going to go to the studio and put it into *practice*.

Thanks again, Heather

Hi, Heather, It looks like you have received a lot of good advise and probably don't need any more at this point. What I want to say is not advise but rather just some observations about centering clay. It is probably one of the most difficult steps in wheel throwing. Part of the problem that is that clay is a living thing. It has a mind and a memory of it's own. It isn't easy to control. I spend some time wedging the clay before I plunk it on the wheel. Wedging is important as it is allowing your hands to get accustomed to the clay. When you push on the clay it pushes back. It responds to each person differently. One's hands have to learn how to push on the clay in order to coax the clay into the center. Sometimes if is enlightening to watch a real master to throw pots. It looks like magic.

When you are just starting out I think it is important not to worry about getting a certain number of pot thrown. Perhaps you could look at this first phase as getting to know the clay. The fact that it may seem as though it is taking you longer to learn centering doesn't in the long run means anything.

I am curious. What are your reasons for taking a pottery class?

B. Macdugal

Well you have received lots of advise about centring. I teach beginners pottery and I agree with Dewitt you have an unhelpful teacher. I would suggest that you are more assertive and ask for more help. I generally demonstrate, then give students a go, if they are having difficulty in centring I centre for them so that they can feel what centred clay is like and have a go at lifting the clay. Then next time if they are having difficulty I (shock horror) touch them and guide their hands to the correct positions. Show this email to your tutor :o) if you like. Very quickly. Wedge fairly soft clay well (if it is too dry slice into 1in/2cm thick slabs, dip in clean water and let sit for ten minutes before wedging) Roll into 1 pound 500gm balls. Place firmly into centre of wheel head or bat on wheel head Wheel anti clockwise for righthanded, clockwise for lefthanded With clay wetted down and hands wet, push clay down firmly to form suction. Then squeezing together to push clay up into a slight cone, (don't need too high) Then (for right handed, reverse if desired) place right hand around clay on right hand side and back of clay. Left hand on top. Left hand presses clay into right hand Right hand holds it steady and therefore centres it. Always brace yourself on wheel or with elbows tucked in. Ok this is the method I teach and it works for me and my students seem to be able to learn in this way. Good luck

I've been doing this for about 20 years and still have trouble centering. I have had marvelous teachers. Everyone around me was throwing beautiful pots. All I ever seemed to throw was clay. The wheels in the classroom were in groups of four. The group I sat with put me next to the wall so that when the clay flew off my bat it would hit the wall and not one of their pots! Fortunately, I prefer to hand-build and sculpt.

After many years on my own and practicing by miself in my garage, I finally realized that I was trying too hard. I was trying to muscle the clay into place. The middle part of the clay is always centered. All you have to do is arrange the outer layers around that center. I backed off the strength moves and am now centering much better.

I'll probably never be very good with the wheel, but I couldn't bear to give up until I had learned this basic skill.

Since my classroom days, I have learned to meditate and I find that putting myself into the same relaxed mode I use for meditation helps enormously.

Good luck,

Jan C.

In article , Jan Clauson writes

If you find yourself getting uptight while working, don't stop the wheel, sit up, let your hands hang relaxed, and think about them touching the floor. Your shoulders will drop and all the tension will leave you. Takes only a few seconds, but it works.

Thanks, Steve.

Jan C.

Steve Mills wrote in news:6lL5BtAFweg $ snipped-for-privacy@mudslinger.demon.co.uk:

Here is my tuppence worth.

I started off the year in a class of experienced throwers and I was absolutley hopeless.

My tutor was a wel known kiwi potter by the name of John Parker who throws sculptural type pots in a dense white stoneware clay called Nelson White.His pots are then glazed with either a clear glaze or a white glaze. He terms this white on white.

Well anyway this white clay is a b..... to centre and to throw and needs to be well wedged. (The theory was if you could work with this clay you could work with anything)

I got to centre eventually but about 5 kilos is the limit.

What he taught was to triangulate (this has been covered in ealier posts) ie bcaing the elbows against the you body so a firm constant pressure can be applied. The other big lesson was to centre at a high speed.

Once I finished his classes I tried out another clay. Whacked 3 kilos on the wheel head, just touched it slightly and it centred.

The point to all this is

1 Make sure your clay is well wedged 2 Pat your clay into a cone before you put it on the wheel. 3 Brace your arms 4 Spin the wheel at a high speed 5 There is nothing stopping you holding a wooden rib against the clay to help trim the ouside of the spinning lump and to help centre it. (If you go to the Axner website you will see that the produce a centering tool, which is only a steel plate on an arm which is pressed up against the spinning clay. This shows you that you only need apply the pressure from one side) 6 It is quite possible that the clay you are using is unsuitable for a beginner.(As is the white clay I was using) Try some other clays. 7 You need to practice and practice some more. Make up 20 2 lb balls of clay at a time and centre and throw cylinders one after another, and then re-cycle the clay. As beginners, all our first efforts are precious and we want to keep them. However you need to get over this and dump them all.

Beginners make bowls because they are easy to make as that is the way the clay naturally wants to go. Throw cylinders. They are more difficult as you need to control the clay, but the cylinder forms the base shape of most of the pots we make, including bowls.

You will really notice the improvement and you will wonder what you used to worry about. You can then transfer your worries onto the thickness of the base and how high you can lift the clay, and then worry about the drying, bisque firing, warping and cracking, then glazing and then the final firing. Thats why we all look old before our time.

8 Earlier on this year I attended a two day workshop taken by Jeff Oestreich. He re-counted an apprenticeship that he did a million years ago at the Bernard Leach Pottery in St Ives. Every day he would come to the pottery and throw goodness knows how many forms a day. At the end of the day they were all dumped into the recycle bin. I can't remember if he said this happened for six months or a year. The point is you need to practice and take no notice of what the others in your class are doing.

Have fun

John W

.

Since your instructor seems a bit reluctant in showing you the fine points of centering and throwing I suggest that you watch and pay attention to the other members of the class as they center and throw, and ask them to talk out loud about their technique while they are centering and throwing.

I'm sure most potters will agree that the prerequisite to decent throwing is centering. You can't throw a good pot out of clay that isn't well centered.

Patting the round ball of clay into a cone on the wheel head while the wheel is turning slowly helps to both attach it securely to the head, and to center it.

Bracing the elbow of the left arm into the hip and holding steadily to the side of the clay.

When pushing the clay on the wheel sneak up to it gradually, and also release pressure slowly not abruptly which will throw the clay off center.

Although I don't necessarily agree that clay is alive, "close your cellar door at night, the clay is creeping up the stairs", it does have a memory.

For starters you can also hold a wet sponge in your right hand and squeeze out water as you press on the clay to center. This assures you will have enough water.

Watched a video of him throwing and turning at an exhibition of his work one time. Interesting. I do not find Nelson white too bad, but I choose mostly to work in Mac's white which is fairly similar really. I don't find it more difficult to centre, though it has less tooth than some other clays when you lift it. Easier to collapse with wide bowls.

Yes I always start people on cylinders and they do form the base skill required, but when opening your centred clay, the opening for a bowl must be curved and the opening for a cylinder flat. Flat bottomed bowls are not attractive. Cheers Annemarie

If I may add to Uncle John's excellent post:

Work with soft clay; clay you can shape easily. Clay that is too hard for you, personally, (we are ALL different) is a hiding to nothing and will knock your confidence for six.

Steve Bath UK

In article , Uncle John writes

I am also taking a beginners pottery class. So I read all the centering posts here with interest. I am not an artist, but a machinist so when I had trouble centering I started to think about what the process of centering does. When you pull (or push) the clay toward the center the clay can only basically go in two directions. As you pull the clay toward the center it has to smooth into a circle and or go up. The clay can't go out unless you press it down from the top. So to center it, you must pull the clay toward the center and hold it steady long enough for it to smooth into a circle. If it rises to much you need to push it back down and start again. Watch the other potters to see how they do this. Start with soft clay to get the hang of it. Good luck, Pete