VERY OT Water heaters without a tank

If the insulation is good enough it shouldn't make much difference.

They're called "combi boilers" in the UK. The main thing you have to worry about is getting it fitted competently. If nobody in your area even knows what they are, forget it.

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Hi Leslie

I have heard of these before, but have no experience myself. Rinnai is the brand that I have heard advertised. Here is a link that I found. Hope this helps.

Steve Alaska

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower 7 times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4 times per week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per week. I am heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am paying for almost 160 hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I don't see putting a water heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot water during the day for hand washing and small jobs and the cost to reheat the entire tank would prolly cost more than the savings if I had a timer and shut it down for 15-18 hrs. per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as expensive as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the performance of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I know they are quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in features and what should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I assume what is available here may be very different from what others may have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

Hi Leslie

Me again. Also visit

They have tankless units as well.

It looks to me like the reviews are very good and the life expectancy could be 2 1/2 times as long so you would be saving both in unit cost and in usage.

We just replaced ours about 4 years ago so may have to start thinking about this fairly soon ourselves.

Steve Alaska

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower 7 times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4 times per week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per week. I am heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am paying for almost 160 hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I don't see putting a water heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot water during the day for hand washing and small jobs and the cost to reheat the entire tank would prolly cost more than the savings if I had a timer and shut it down for 15-18 hrs. per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as expensive as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the performance of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I know they are quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in features and what should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I assume what is available here may be very different from what others may have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

I have a friend who lives along and she has one of these. I'll ring her as soon as I can and ask her what she thinks of hers. Knowing her she won't know anything about the economics of the thing! but she'll know whether she likes it or not. I'll let you know what she says. . In message , Leslie & The Furbabies in MO. writes

We have one, and the main problem is that it takes some time to "fire up" and reach my kitchen sink. We pay for our water by the gallon, and it can take a sinkful of water(no kidding) to get it to run hot. Ergo, wasted water, more cost. Also if you were ever planning to use any kind of solar heating that can prove very difficult and costly to include in your tankless system. For central heating it can't be beaten, but for showers, we have a point-of use electric heater with integral pump, and that is very efficient. I threaten to have a point- of-use heater for my kitchen; as it is, if a small quantity of hot water is needed, I boil the kettle and use that in a small bowl. We only wash dishes in the dishwasher. It all helps if you have the heater very near to where it will be used with only a short pipe run to the faucets/taps.

Hope that helps

Joan

We have a travel trailer that we take to the mountains and it has one of those hot water heaters. The hot water supply has always seemed to be immediate and unlimited. I've never quite understood how it works but, of course, I don't understand how the radio works. While you're thinking (gasp), why don't you consider a timer on the regular hot water heater and investigate one of those snazzy kitchen faucet things that does always ready nearly-boiling hot water? V-e-r-y interesting, Leslie. Let us know how it goes. Polly

DH has looked into tankless hot water heaters. One thing is size. For multi uses in a house you need a good size unit. That might not be a problem for you alone but if you had a lot of company and you are doing showers, dishwashing and laundry there may be too much pull on a smaller unit and you may run short. Here in SO. Cal. water heaters are a source of clean water in case of an emergency but that shouldn't be a consideration for you there. A couple of years ago the gas guy was fixing a problem with the neighbor's water heater and he said when he replaces his hot water heater he is going tankless. More efficient and less fuss. Bosch sells them but quite honestly with the help I have had on their washer/dryer I would be hesitant to buy anything from them again. They have been a huge disappointment. They are not the DIY install like a standard WH. Not sure how that might effect initial cost. DD is living with us now and she has a tendency to run the HW heater out. (she pays her share of utilities) but we figured we'd have to turn a tankless one off on her or she might float away! Taria

Leslie & The Furbabies > I've been doing some pondering- I know very dangerous! BG

Thanks Joan. If I design the house with all the bathrooms, kitchen and laundry very close together would that eliminate much of the 'it can take a sinkful of water(no kidding) to get it to run hot' problem???

Leslie & The Furbabies >> I have a friend who lives along and she has one of these. I'll ring her

Well, I will have quite some time before I can knock this house into shape, sell it and start building. (Spending much of the past three months in bed after this traumatic and extensive hip surgery as played havoc with my strength and stamina and I have a lot of painting, packing and weeding to do before this house can be put on the market.) I'm gathering some ideas right now. On a fixed and modest income I have to weigh the pros and cons. I am almost convinced it's the way for me to go, tho. I don't think I'd ever need to shower and wash clothes at the same time, for example, so a smaller unit would do for me.

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

Can you get "Off-Peak" Electricity? This heats your water at night when there is less demand for power and therefore the amount you use costs less perKwt. My MIL had one and it worked for her with four people in house and it very rarely needed reheating during the day when she turned on the 'thermo'. Ruth Sydney

I am trying to convince DH to look at these for our home. We have a water heater that is on its last legs and will need to be replaced soon. So far he won't even consider them. I think I'm going to have to research them on my own to see if the would work for us. Do let us know what you decide!!

Mine does this too and it is not a tankless. Just too much piping between it and the tank.

DH has looked into a tankless water heater for the house we will build when he retires. He says there's a good site --

is the link he thinks -- and he has learned a lot about them from this. His take is that it only works with gas, not electric so if you are an all electric home, it won't be feasible unless you add propane or natural gas. Apparently, the water travels through a coil and THIS is what's heated. Like a regular tank water heater, the water travels from the coil to wherever you have opened up the faucet. If you have a two story home and the unit is in the basement, it will take just as long for tankless hot water to get to you as it does for regular tank hot water. A tankless water heater DOES NOT mean instant hot water on demand. It does cost considerably more as you have mentioned. It uses a whole lot less power than a regular tank -- you do need a bit of electricity to turn on the gas flame that is used to heat the water in the coil but that's probably just a few cents worth of electricity. DH also says they are much smaller than the standard tank and can be tucked into a closet and not necessarily put in the basement or the garage. It MUST be professionally installed -- I think Jack mentioned that -- or you *will* have all sorts of problems. From what DH has read, it should provide constant hot water throughout the entire house depending on the capacity of your plumbing lines. You don't run out of hot water like with a tank but if you have 3 people taking showers at the same time the washer is going along with the dishwasher, then you'll have a problem providing enough hot water to all of those locations. If your water heater coil is 1" diameter then you will have more hot water available for use by different locations in the house than if your coil is 3/4" or 1/2". Anyway, Dh is pretty sure we will have a tankless system when we build the cabin. It will pay for itself in the long run and everyone in the mountains has propane for heating so we will have the gas available. Keep us posted on what you learn, OK Leslie? Good Luck & CiaoMeow >^;;^<

PAX, Tia Mary >^;;^< (RCTQ Queen of Kitties) Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their whiskers! Visit my Photo albums at

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO. wrote:

we have one of these - called an instantaneous or continuous system here in Australia. Ours is a 25-30 yr old Junkers (bought out by Bosch) and was in the house when we moved in 18yrs ago. Our laundry, kitchen and bathroom are all in line - the hot water system is in the laundry and we have very little time lag getting hot water to the bathroom (furthest away). There are 5 of us using it, we also have gas cooking and heating and my gas bill is quite reasonable. There are some issues with pressure - we needed a particular type of mixer tap when we renovated the kitchen (ordinary single taps are not an problem) and if you turn on a tap or flush the toilet while someone is in the shower, they lose a bit of hot water. It's something we've learnt to work around - if you want to fill the kettle while someone's in the shower, you do it at a trickle. If you flush, you yell "sorry" :-) I understand that the newer electronically controlled systems don't have the pressure problem.

When this system needs replacing, I'll certainly be replacing it with another. We use a star rating system to measure energy efficiency for appliances and most of these systems rate at 5+ stars (out of 6).

chris :-)

Don't look at just the difference in price between a tankless and a regular water heater.... there are also installation costs, which can be quite high in retrofits. You need a big natural gas line or a lot more electricity to the main panel, for starters and specific exhaust stacks for gas.

A couple of things you could look at: retrofitting for solar hot water, (tax and sometimes utility rebates for this), or a smaller water heater with better insulation. resources/factsheets/SolarDHW.pdf

Another choice might be to put the main tank on a timer for showers, and use one of the little electric "hot water dispensers" for kitchen sink needs if you don't have a dishwasher. (Might work anyhow with the dishwasher if the dw has its own heater.) This would probably be cheapest if you've already got heavy enough wire near your sink.

When your current water heater quits, consider sizing a new one for your actual water use patterns.

Kay

k

that would be my consideration. I forgot to say that it runs off gas but if the elec. is off(it works the pump), you get no hot water at all, unlike a tanked system where you can still drain the tank . I have spent more on maintenance over the years than any notional savings. Our house is not designed for a tankless system which was put in for the previous owner (a very old lady) by her family. She did no cooking or laundry as the family did all that. For a large family, I think it might pay to install it, as I remember when the kids were at home we were always running out of hot water! If it were me, I would ask round to see if there was anyone you knew who could give a "stateside" opinion and demo. Maybe I am biased, but our water is very expensive here and I hate waste. hope that helps Joan Coventry UK

I told DH we should think about the tankless water heater when the time comes & looking at our water heater, I'm surprised the time hasn't come already. He thought they were very expensive & if, as someone said, you waste a lot of water before you get hot water, that could be a deal breaker. Especially since we are being encouraged to ration our water, since we haven't had much rain in the past 2 years.

But, more importantly, did I miss an important chapter in your life? "Living alone now" - what happened to the hunky husband? Hope that's not being too noisy, but I had to ask.

Pauline Northern California

We separated almost 3 months ago.

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.