Poncho Pattern instructions; Wild Things software

It's not that so much as it is that you complained so bitterly, in an open forum, about a free product, as if they were trying to perpetrate a fraud. That's patently unfair, and I'd defend any company that was attacked that way, no matter who it is.

Always for fairness, Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

But Beth, that's exactly what you did. You wrote as if the FREE program was an attempt by Wild Ginger to defraud you, somehow. I think that's why so many people jumped to defend them, not to attack you. It was just unfair to make such a blanket statement, especially in an open forum.

By the way, Click & Sew IS a more simplistic version of PMB. Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

Ummm...not quite. There may be, but I'm not one of them. I have absolutely *NO* association with WildGinger. As a matter of fact, the only piece of WG software I own is WildThings.

The problem was the way you approached it, not the actual reference. If you had posted a simple query (what are those lines on the WT poncho pattern, perhaps noting that they were not mentioned in the instructions), you probably would not have opened the can of worms. Instead, you attacked.

And how many of those were written for a free program? And how many of them are documentation for both the program *and* something else (WG provides both documentation for the program *and* sewing instructions). It's rather like expecting TurboTax to provide not only documentation on the program, but also to provide tax advice in addition to interpreting the tax laws.

I'd be just as willing to defend any piece of software when attacked on such flimsy grounds.

Quite frankly, you asked for it.

jenn

-- Jenn Ridley snipped-for-privacy@chartermi.net

There are many levels of sewing. You can be a competant sewist if you follow a pattern instruction sheet. I don't feel that anyone will be a truely great seamstress unless they can learn to trust their ability and not use the directions.

For some it is hard to learn to think many steps ahead which is what you need to do to sew without instructions. You need to be able to see that if I do this, when I get to that, something else will happen. This is part of the process that is needed to create something.

Can you throw out your instructions tomorrow? Probably not, but the first step is to try to figure out what would come next without reading about it. Then check the instructions. There are some things that don't matter what order they are done in so even if the pattern doesn't say what you thought of is next you still could be right.

Another way to learn to sew without instructions is to make the same thing again or even three times. That third time I bet you don't even need to look at all.

Eventually when you get a new pattern you can glance at the pictures to check if there is something goofy in the sewing or not. After awhile you don't even need the pictures. That is the best level to strive for. It frees you to try new stuff, or to make changes and let the creativity flow.

I made the jump from following a pattern to no instructions in high school. ( I sewed alot) I still remember doing this by having a set of instructions and deciding that there was a better way to do something. So I changed that part then figured out the next part and when I got done, I had realized that I didn't use the rest of the instructions sheet. It was so freeing.

Sandy Erickson

Well, you sounded like you were trashing the company because their free product isn't perfect, and you intimated that you had problems with a Click & Sew pattern but when I asked if you had asked for help you never answered it. Now, this is cyberspace and it's hard to read body language and tone of voice, and my words have often been misinterpreted because of that, but the way your words came across it was like you were doing your best to trash the company with malicious intent. *That* is why I was asking for more information, because I know that sometimes people don't realize that some software has a steeper learning curve than a computer game, and that's not only pattern-drafting software but other software as well, and I was wondering if you had unrealistic expectations.

The Sure-Fit method is one of a number of similar methods that have existed since at least the 1950s. (I have one called The Perfect Fit, and I know of another one out there that I didn't buy.) There were tons more people sewing then, which meant that the cost of developing such things wasn't as bad because the market was bigger, *plus* there were only so many things that you could do with what they produced so it would be easier to write the instructions. The thing is, a lot of the customization that WG lets you do, the Sure-Fit manual doesn't cover, so you'd be on your own anyway.

But the Perfect Fit stuff I had didn't adapt well to my nonstandard-shaped figure, and it still needed hand alterations, so to me it was not an excellent product because it really couldn't customize the pattern anywhere near as well as it needed to for it to fit me. But that doesn't mean that it is a lousy product -- just that it's not the perfect product for everybody. For those people who run a lot closer to a standard size than I do (and for those who have more time to hand-draft things and alter them by hand), I am glad that it is there, because it really is a great system if it works for you. I was glad to have it when I used mine because it was better than a commercial pattern, but I am even more glad that I have the pattern-drafting software that fits my non-"far off the beaten path" figure lots better than those manual drafting programs could when used as directed and takes a lot less of my time to get them to fit right.

((((((((((((((((((DEAFENING APPLAUSE))))))))))))))))))))

That explains it perfectly!!!!!

One of the things they make you do on one of the courses I looked into was to make a garment from the pattern WITHOUT the instructions. I tend to look at them to see why they want me to do something a particular way, but do it another way if it is better for the pattern/fabric/cut of the garment (viz the lilac bias cut bridesmaid dresses!)

I have a bunch of patterns for which there are no instructions, usually patterns I made myself... I wouldn't expect anyone that was a less experienced garment maker than myself to use them without instructions.

Another thing to remember is that the instructions CAN be wrong! Sometime it just takes common sense to see this and correct it, but sometimes it takes experience - again, like the bridesmaid dresses. On the other hand, there are some things for which following a good set of instructions is a very good idea: I have an Elizabethan court dress pattern with something like 80 A4 pages of detailed instructions, and I shall need them!

I had a pattern for some 18th C fall front breeches that was almost useless: not only were the instructions incomprehensible, and the diagrams so poor you couldn't tell how things should be done from them, but there was no grain line and no pattern layout diagram from which to guess the layout! There was also an instruction that was just plain wrong (you ended up with 8 layers of fabric somewhere daft!). It took several days of historical costume research to find out how the breeches

*should* be cut. This would have been an extremely poor deal for someone without my sewing experience, or knowledge of where to find the information I needed, or how to interpret 18th C tailor's diagrams. NEXT time I do it, this pattern will be easy, because I have found all the gremlins and destroyed them!

If someone is SELLING a pattern you can expect a competent set of instructions for the garments in the pattern, and the variations allowed for by the designer: beyond that, you're on your own. If something is free, you get what you pay for! Some are excellent, some take a bit of decoding, and some are in chocolate teapot territory!

If you buy a CAD package, you can expect a competent set of instructions on how to use the package: you can't expect a complete set of instructions for every tiny detail of what you design with the package, unless you write it yourself.

Beth Pierce, stepping back into the ring, states:

Karen, You need to be aware that there are two Beths on this NG. I didn't write the first paragraph; I own "just" a Click and Sew Pants CD besides Wild Things, nothing else.

Second, if you felt I wrote that Wild Ginger was "defrauding" me, you are mistaken. Those are strong words. You can look back in the posts and I stated that I didn't "like their quality control" and that I was "frustrated". I went on to intimate that I had several problems with a Click and Sew Pants CD and I chose (and still continue to choose) not to discuss that nightmare here. You're right; this is an open forum, that's why I posted here.

Third, several posts were misconstrued to mean that I needed sewing instructions, as if I needed a "pal" or book to assist me. The sewing instructions I was talking about had nothing to do with "customized sewing instruction" but the sewing instructions that came with Wild Things--the Adobe file. All one had to do was click on their downloaded file and see this. After the references of "customized sewing", "12 year olds can do this", "what can you expect, it's free", etc., the thread became off base and then took on a life of its own when all I wanted to do was state that there was a problem.

If I stepped on yours or anyone else's toes, I am sincerely sorry as that wasn't my intent. I felt that I could share my frustrations with the NG and that others could see my rant. In fact, I even apologized for ranting. But I still won't buy their software, and if anyone wants to email me personally to find out why, I'll tell them so. I certainly can't discuss it here.

End of story.

I don't see why you can't discuss it here. I certainly have pulled no punches in saying why I won't buy Dress Shop. And all I wanted to know was that if you just wrote off the software as unusable out of the box or if you tried all your options to get your learning curve up to speed, which I think is a reasonable question.

Being male I have to ask this. Directions? What are directions? Mike in Wisconsin

--------snip--------

Ok this is the first time I've chimed in on this thread and will probably be the last time :-) but I'm not sure about this analogy, since the original poster is talking about a demo. I don't use WG software or any other electronic quilting or sewing program....but if Turbo Tax or any other company gives out a freebie or a demo wouldn't it seem they should make sure it was readable, doable, and user-friendly? Wouldn't one think that a company want to make their products so in order to embrace new customers into possibly shelling out money for their full fledged software? =20

I'm going back to my sewing now.

------------------------ "Old quilters never die, they just go to pieces."

And that's not what I said, Beth. I said you wrote "as if" you felt this way, not that you actually said that.

I honestly don't know why this has gotten so blown out of proportion.

Each to her own.

Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

Sandy, I could do that in high school, too. I graduated in 1949, and had taken over DMs sewing clients in 1946 when she had a paralyzing stroke, but too many "senior moments" prevent me from doing away with the instruction sheet altogether now even if I've made at least 2 of the same thing. I often use the same pattern 5+times, especially a favorite Vogue skirt and pants pattern I've had since the mid 80s. Emily

Has anyone else seen "beast darts" on a trilingual pattern? LOL Xena

Guess you can't see that she's just not willing to take any more of the beating you've given her. I thought the major function of this group was to support other stitchers, but it looks like it's more important to be right. Does the adage of winning the battle but losing the war apply in any way here?

It reminds me of when I was first learning coding and the use of desktop computers. The teachers have a hard job of getting back to zero to see where their students are coming from, nor can they resist beating the student up when their teaching isn't getting across. It takes a special mindset to write technical manuals, and to work in customer support. Above all, it requires active listening.

Quite frankly, when I look at the number of people who jumped on this one person, it reminds me of something undesireable that occasionally happened on the schoolyard playground. Does everyone really have to add their two cents here? Is the issue really that critical? Where is restraint?

another Sharon

You've said it so beautifully. Umm, chocolate..... I'm headed there now.