As long as Arch is Elsewhere

oops, guess I better top using that rougingin gouge to open the inside of my bowls

No, I don't think so. If you're not chewing beech or chasing chunks across the floor, you've got a proper sense of caution. I'd only recommend it on the outside, though

I think the insight that: "A turning tool is designed to present a cutting edge or a scraping edge to the wood in a limited range of orientations, such that the cut/scrape can be accomplished easily, efficiently and safely. Taken at its core, what does this mean? It means that every tool has a "sweet spot" of operation."

Was overwhelmed by a few bitter experiences or comfortable conventional wisdom.

I don't believe there is _a_ sweet spot on _a_ type of tool for all operations and configurations, because there are right and left hand cuts, concave and convex, face and long grain ... well, you get the picture. Not to mention that the number of tools available to do the same job, and turners still trying for more, is the best indication there isn't even a perfect tool for a particular job, much less technique.

The observations, before they wander away, are observations that bad tool practice can be dangerous with _any_ tool. Tool rest too far is not a comment on the suitability of the tool, but the carelessness of the operator. Tool presented at the wrong angle (out of the "sweet spot") is also not the fault of the tool, though, I'll bet a lot of folks have found a heck of a lot more sweet spots on a gouge - or not, which is why they grind 'em funny - than I have, and it wasn't by presenting "the" proper tool for "the" conventional reason. After seeming to object, Joe does return to experience, both individual and vicarious, as the best teacher.

It's sort of like when I went to pour my first concrete. I read, pestered and questioned, and discovered the consensus that sometimes concrete cracks, sometimes it doesn't. While there are bad practices which will guarantee failure, there are no practices which will guarantee success.

Even there it's 6KB.

George,

We are violently agreeing on this topic. My whole point is that in a forum like this, we can't control the audience. In other words, a novice turner may read a discussion of tool use between to experienced turners who are doing rather unconventional things. As an experienced turner, I feel that I am obligated to provide appropriate caveats so that the novice lurker, etc. understands my frame of reference. I know that in an open forum like this, the reader is on his or her own to try to measure the validity of others' statements. I just prefer to be very clear so as not to confuse someone who doesn't yet have enough knowledge to evaluate what I am saying.

And, for the record, I use spindle gouges on bowls and hollow forms; bowl gouges on spindles; scrapers everywhere; parting tools, beading tools, skews, X-Acto knives, dental picks and allen wrenches as scrapers; I hollow some vessels with spindle gouges; and, for between center work, I use my chuck as a driver instead of a drive spur most of the time. For anyone out there that doesn't know how to do these things safely: DON'T, until you have someone explain the risk and rewards. In all these cases, FOR ME, they provide speed, expediency, or an unusual cut. I just don't openly discuss these techniques unless I know the audience.

See further comments below:

Again - great discussion!

While I believe that every tool has a range of capabilities, there are things you can't do with those same tools. You refer to this as operator error and I agree. My point is that to describe the use of a non-typical tool for a particular cut is risky because a novice turner probably doesn't have the tool or turning knowledge to determine what is safe and what is not. Rather than telling them that tool X can do a job without explaining the pitfalls, I would error on the side of caution. On the other side, there are cuts that no tool does easily. In these cases, a fundamental knowledge of woodturning dynamics and tools will help a turner select the best tool to do the job.

Again, we are agreeing here. My point is that a novice turner, for example, may read someone in this forum talking about using a rouging gouge for bowls. In this whole thread, however, the people that have stated this use have never provide caveats like: "only on the outside of the bowl", or "only with the wings ground back", or " only when I could get the tool rest close enough".

I meant it, i used it inside, the front flat, not ground back wing, and i was doing it for the extra length(I was far over the rest for the other tools)

Now I understand. It's about "the children...."