being new to newsgroups and all

I might be able to help a bit. I write both client and server usenet software applications. I'll keep the answers as non-technical as I can. If you want to discuss the real technical aspects, I'd gladly do that off-list.

No it's not on one computer server. It's a distributed system with several layers of transmission and storage. There are several main Usenet servers worldwide that *sortof* act as the controllers and coordinate overall distribution among those servers. Your ISP either has an agreement with these (or, more likely, regional subordinate servers that get updated regularly from those main servers) servers to keep them updated on all or some of the lists OR your ISP has an agreement with a commercial provider (which, in turn, has an agreement with the main or subordinate Usenet servers themselves). The latter is the more likely scenario.

So, the message you just sent (and that I'm responding to) was transmitted to your ISP's Usenet server which was then eventually sent on to one of those main Usenet servers. It was then (but maybe not immediately) distributed among those other main servers and on down the line to subordinate and commercial providers. My ISP's Usenet server was then updated and my Usenet client application (in this case I'm just using Outlook Express instead of my own Usenet application I made) downloaded it onto my own computer.

This isn't to say that you can't setup your own Usenet group on your own server (with NNTP server software) and either let people have access to your server or have it distributed on the "main" Usenet distributions (extremely unlikely but, hey, it could happen ).

That's still fairly confusing probably.

No way to really know unless you ask your ISP. Even then, they may have setup different rules depending on each group. They may have even setup, instead of a time limit, a storage space limit where it will start deleting messages in that group once that group has taken up X amount of storage space no matter how much time it was actually there.

There are various places on the 'net that archives some groups.

(click on the "Groups" at the top of the page) is a common website that archives this group.

Not necessarily. It's an inexact system and some ISP's are worse than others. Bottom line is don't assume you're getting all of them. Also, not all ISP's carry all groups. If they don't, just ask them about it. Maybe they'll start carrying it.

- Andrew

one test is how many groups your ISP carries...if it is 20,000-30,000 or more, you will probably be fine for *this* group, as that indicates a serious large company. Since this group does not allow 'binaries', that is pictures, music, software...etc., it will probably be archived for several weeks..(binaries, when that are carried, are often only a matter of a couple days, as they are an enormous drain on server space.) If you have asked your newsreader to download ALL messages for this group, (as opposed to 'sampling' a few hundred) go see what the oldest one is, and you'll get some idea of retention time.

Marshall is correct that Google groups will allow you to search for 'almost' any post ever made to this group, using an amazing array of parameters. You can even post from there if necessary. If you should have a problem with YOUR server, there are a few free servers in the world that would allow you to get the NON-binary groups almost anytime.

(also...look at the main list of newsgroups...there are groups devoted to just answering questions ABOUT newsgroups)...

have fun!

Just for comparison, a major (IMHO) news server, supernews.com has the following stats for the woodworking groups I follow. As of 15 minutes before posting this message.

name # of messages days retained rec.woodworking 100143 269.1 rec.crafts.woodturning 13269 285.2 alt.binaries.pictures.furniture 249 45.4 alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking 2533 58.6

Supernews service is provided at no extra charge by my ISP, which is a local provider in NE Ohio.

ARM

its 61077 groups, so i guess that'll do.

Wow!!! Who's your news group server? Supernews only shows 30350 groups as of 10 minutes ago.

ARM

in article snipped-for-privacy@gwis.com, Alan McClure at snipped-for-privacy@gwis.com wrote on 12/24/03 10:09 AM:

shawnews(its my isp's) its funny because by the time i hit the F's outlooks scroll bar has an error, and the scrolling part stays at the top, so i can only go down. is there any way in outlook of bookmarking the woodturning one so that i dont hafta go through the list, or use the find ones containing function(id like to have that as a separate file.

You might look for a "subscribe" option- I'm not sure where it would be in outlook, maybe under the server or newsgroup tab if there is one?

If you're going to be doing a lot of newsgroup browsing, you should consider a dedicated newsreader- there are a load of free ones out there that will make life a whole lot easier. I use Gravity, Forte's Free Agent is good, and I think Eudora has a free newsreader also.

in article snipped-for-privacy@news.chi.sbcglobal.net, Victor Radin at snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMameritech.net wrote on 12/24/03 10:42 AM:

i used subscribe, all it does is bold the text. I will eventually, but for the last week I've been running my computer without shutting down, and I wrote a script to quit finder(which is like the Desktop and start menu and stuff on Windows) so I cant access any programs I cant get to from Itunes or Zbrush(the choices are I.E Outlook, and thats about it.

Vic, Reyd's using a Mac, as all astute, intelligent and creative folks do... That said, I've used MT-Newswatcher for years and like it. It's a freebie from and is quite verstile with many preferences options, filters and setting up different "personalities" as well as being able to send email responses (tho that's a dangerous feature - you mean to reply privately via email to someone and end up posting the message to the entire world).

_____ American Association of Woodturners Cascade Woodturners Assoc., Portland, Oregon Northwest Woodturners, Tigard, Oregon _____