Exploiting carbide for hollowing

It might help if I post my website address wouldnt it????

Duh.

cad

cad wrote:

That's because it isn't "the best cutting metal", actually. Carbide will not take as sharp an edge as steel. It holds up for a long time, but it's never as sharp, and for most turning operations a sharper edge and more frequent resharpenings works better than a edge that is not quite as sharp.

Next.

Out of curiousity, are you using standard inserts? I've thought about it more than a few times, but they never seemed sharp enough to get a clean cut out of them on wood. To my untrained eye, it appears that metal is more *peeled* than cut, and that seemed to be the difference.

What's the URL?

Rather than the drawings, are you offering the system as a whole for sale? If so, what is the price range for an item like that?

Sounds like it's worth a look if you get that address posted.

Do you offer a discount on the shipping and handling if more than one blank is ordered, or does the fee apply to each piece?

Unfortuantely, the site doesn't show any indication of the condition of the inside of the vessels and boxes, so it doesn't tell us anything about the carbide insert hollowing- any chance of some work-in-progress pictures on ABPW?

There is a guy selling carbide insert tools on Ebay, he uses both round and square inserts. I also ran into a guy making a line of tooling using proprietary inserts that are dished in the center and thus have a positive rake ontop. They cut like a B**ch!!

Could you post some picts of your tools on your site??

Ecnerwal I surely agree with you on that, but you could use it on hollow forms where the tools are scraping more than cutting, HOWEVER you are not going to sharpen your bits on your regular grinder, and getting a green silicon carbide stone does not make it easy, the stones also wear like snow for the sun.

There is a reason why most solid carbide cutters are sharpened by professionals, also don't drop your solid carbide bits on a concrete floor, or you might be picking up pieces.

Cutting wood is not the same as cutting metal, and HSS is the best compromise between sharpness and a lasting edge IMO.

I have enough experience with carbide tools cutting metal, and the brittle bits are just not worth the problems for using them to cut wood.

Yes NEXT

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Ecnerwal wrote:

Well, sharpening is not for the SiC stone, but the diamond hone. Reworking a chipped edge is for the stone. Carbide, even in the more expensive incarnations being fairly coarse-grained as compared to steel, might find yourself going there occasionally, but the stone's going to last longer than the white ones on steel.

Carbide might stretch to Oland-type tools, but it certainly shouldn't stretch far on its own, given its brittle nature. Limits your angles and approaches a lot.

Wow this is awesome, so great to hear from you and get your opinions guys.

Ecnerwal, you are correct, carbide isn't the most pristene in sharpness. But I use it on the inside of the form, to hollow out the inside only. I never use it for outside cuts or even finishes.

It is merely to save time hollowing.

Once I am within .250" of my finish wall thickness, I change my cutting bit to a M2 scraper bit and finish the wall and bottom to a very nice surface that does not require sanding.

Again, since I am a machinist and tool and die maker, I made everything even my own scraper bits.

Thank you again Ecnerwal and it is my pleasure to meet you. I look forward to sharing more with you.

cad

Ecnerwal wrote:

George and Leo, That used to be the old school problems. Brittle bits breaking, and eating up a green wheel to sharpen. But now a days technology has improved this radically.

You can get diamond grinding wheels and stones of all shapes and sizes very innexpensively.

I use a small diamond wheel, 3" in diameter, mounted on a dremel tool shaft to shape my carbide bit first. The angle of presentation of the bit to the hollow form is what matters.

I take a standard round carbide bit with a very high positive rake on top. The bit is about .375" diameter. I grind a corner on it removing the round edge so it has a small point that wont grab when I go to cut.

Sharpening with the diamond wheel takes about 10 seconds. Thats it. But I rarely ever need to sharpen it. The most time I spent was grinding it to the shape that was perfect.

My tool bit holder is at an angle so the the bit presents to the wall of the form at a 30 degree angle parallel to the length of the bed. This allows the bit to perform a shear> > Ecnerwal I surely agree with you on that, but you could use it on

Hi Prometheus, My tool is designed so that it holds my bits at an angle. The bit is held at a 30 to 40 degree angle relative to the length of the bed.

This makes it produce a shearing cut. It doesnt scrape.

I have other M2 and HSS scraper bits I made to do the final finish scraping on the inside after I did the hollowing with the carbide bit.

I like the carbide so much because it stays sharp and after 5 forms I have hollowed with it, I still dont have to sharpen it yet.

I have some pictures of my tool I made that I posted at the NCWoodworkers forum. I will try to make a page at my site for this and let you know when they are there.

I could make one of these rigs for you but even the cost will be rather much. If you will send me your email address, I will send you a pdf of the photos I took of it so you can get a better idea of the tool and how well it cuts.

I dont have access to machining tools anymore, so it will cost more to make the tool for you than if I made it. But I am confident I could make you one to include the tool, tool holder slide, two tool bit holders, 1 A2 steel scraper, and one ground carbide hollower bit for around $500 USD. I will have to get some quotes from a machinist to be certain.

We can discuss this in depth once I mail you the pictures.

cad

Prometheus wrote:

Prom, If you mail me and tell my what blanks you want, I will take them and see what the best fit is in a box and mail all of them in one box if that is possible.

I sent 5 blanks to a person in Kansas the other day.

The box weighed 22 lbs. The shipping was around $25.

So yes if you want muliples, I take orders for them via email, and then send the quote to you first once I know your shipping address and phone number. If you like the price then I send you an email invoice from Paypal.

If you dont have Paypal, I make a webpage for your order, whereby you can go to this url and pay for the bundled order using your credit card or debit card.

I have some quite beautiful blanks.

cad

Prometheus wrote:

Hi Bradford, I will certainly work on publishing those pics.

I have been very busy. I go to school 2 days a week, and I have been using all my spare time recently developing a design and prototype of a pet casket that is 24 x 12 x 9.

I will let all of you know when I get those pics onsite. Will try to do it today.

cad

Bradford Chaucer wrote:

All of my experience trying to use carbide cutters to cut wood had been bad until we were at the Desert Woodturning Round-up in Arizona this last February. There was a fellow at the swap meet, Mike Hunter, selling his tools with carbide cutters that seemed to be sharp. (He has a web site at: I thought they would be pretty good for hollowing endgrain and purchased a 3/8" tool for my wife, who has a bit of a problem with endgrain hollowing. I tried it out when we returned home and decided to do a review on it. I obtained one of the 1/2" tools without a handle that could fit into the Min-O-Bar stabilized boring bar to use in the test also. It worked very well in the boring bar, but also well when handled and held freehand with the cutter at a 45 degree angle to the area of cut. The review was published in the May 2006 issue of More Woodturning.

This has become one of my favorite tools, especially for finish cuts. It works on end grain and side grain. It leaves a very smooth surface and creates fine shavings that only a sharp edge can do. It will do a lot of cutting before it becomes dull, but does not respond well to cutting your chuck any better than other tools. Mike simply recommends replacing the cutter when it becomes dull, but I think that they can be sharpened by spinning the tool against a diamond hone, but not get rid of the chipped out parts from cutting the chuck.

One of my readers, who purchased the tool, said he was very pleased with it and that it was much easier for him to use than his bowl gouge.

Mike is not advertising where he gets his cutters or whether they are specially ground for him, but I don't blame him for keeping this secret. I think this fellow has brought a good tool to the world of woodturning. Incidentally, it does a pretty good job on spindle turning, but doesn't do "V" grooves well.

Fred Holder

I finally got around to making a link at my website, to open the pdf doc of my hollowing rig I mentioned.

Go to

The first paragraph has the info about the hollowing tool. There is a link to download the pdf. Keep in mind when I shot this pics. They were taken shortly aftar I had first built it and did a test run.

The bit tool holder is the first one and it was not ground to angle with the bed travel. But the finish scraper made from a .500" HSS tool bit is.

I will be working on getting new pics of all the enhancements I made soon.

cad

Prometheus wrote:

Cad Where are you getting your carbide cutters?

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And what grade carbide are they?

Ken Moon Weberville, TX

Good deal, I'll be letting you know in a few weeks, after I ponder it a bit.

Wow, that thing is a monster... Looks like a fun toy, though. Even without the carbide insert, I imagine it'd make a good Oland tool mount.

Makes sense - make the tool design do what the arm won't. Makes a lot of tools!

Careful though, you are departing the freehand realm of the artist and becoming a machinist....