Exploiting carbide for hollowing

Ken I have gotten them from several places trying different sizes and shapes.

Finding what you want is like learning trigonometry though.

The ones I used came from kennametal.com and I had to call in to get help figuring out how to pick the right number.

I have since picked up some others at two other local shops, and tried different grinds on them.

Still the Kenemetal bit, with the extreme "cupped" top and high rake on the side, does the best hogging.

cad

Ken Mo> > Cad

See my reply to Ken.

I am not the best in the world at navigating forums.

cad

Darrell Feltmate wrote:

Arch, I realise my shortcomings in supporting my first thread opener. However it doesnt depart from my convictions even though my documentation bears a fair degree of validation yet to be forthcoming.

I get by on ingenuity and common sense to compensate for my meager living.

And when I find or realise something that makes living easier, and the pursuit of happiness and livelihood easier, I want to share it with others that may have the same desires I had prior to finding this solution.

Whether I am incorrect, inconsistent in dialog, or seemingly full of crap to you, my statements are the truth from my perspective. When I have time to take pictures of the tool I ground, I will, and not before and certainly not because I am insulted for not having visual proof of it on hand.

Providing food and shelter for me and my family takes precedence over validating my statements to a member of a collective of what should be casual chat.

I dont know what the acronym COC refers to but I am sure it isnt good. If you are looking for someone to humiliate forget it. I know who I am, what my capabilites are and am satisfied with my limitations, but also in my ability to improve them without having to find others that I can belittle to pacify extreme feelings of insecurity like you must possess.

I find peace and well-being turning wood. I find beauty and grace in the work I produce. And the fact that I seek it for my own personal gratification is all that matters.

Because I try to earn an > Thank's CAD for making us take a 'second look'. I have nothing to add

George you know, I felt that very thing when I first fired that tool up.

I thought to myself, "man, this takes all the skill in my hands out." But after using it a bit, I realised I was wrong.

Although the rig is supported vertically, you still have to guide it by hand and control the pressure and travel. You still have to be wary of how much you are taking away. How consistent your wall is at all times.

I think the biggest reason I made it was the safety factor, and I am solidly convinced of that now as this was my most feared event in turning, hollowing out a vessel. This tool took all that fear away. I had some bad experiences trying to do it before.

So basically the tool removed the danger while leaving the requirements of hand eye skill intact. It may not require the degree of skill and time acceptable to a purist, but for me it is still gratifying in practice.

And this is my first reason for making turned work. My second is by necessity. I have to make an income by some means. I was a CAD programmer for a long time, and there are no other cad jobs nearby now since I have been laid off. I started out in life with what I could carry in an automobile. I worked and earned along with my wife, to have what I own now. I have never been able to grow my income to a point of financial security so my art work is part of my current livelihood.

So my perspective on turning may lean a bit to the commercial side, but it is a must for me.

Thanks for your comments though,

cad

cad, I'll try to explain, but if you still don't understand my intent, at least it will serve to underscore the vicissitudes of the net.

********************************************* "Thanks CAD for making us take a 'second look". My intent was to acknowledge with thanks that you didn't just go along with the general concept that carbide is no good for turning tools.

"Questionable dogma and downright errors sometimes become 'truth' by mindless repetition". My meaning was that you made us rethink something that is believed mostly because it's repeated over and over again in posts, books, etc.

"Seems good to revisit woodturning's verities from time to time as thinking, equipment and techniques change". My thought was that it's a good thing that you (and anyone else) try 'different' things as the state of the art changes and advances.

"Can you believe that a confirmed COC is saying this"? My explanation is that I am known by most here as a crotchety ole coot (COC) who doesn't much like change, so they would be surprised at my progressive attitude.

cad, I don't know what ideas of reference you might have and I don't know what part of my thanks you don't understand, but I do know that your being "incorrect", "inconsistent" or "seemingly full or crap" were not my words nor my manner of speech.

********************************************

To the ng; I had hoped that my 'web site' would correct any misunderstood musings & postings. They may have run their course on what is basically a Q&A forum. If cad can so misunderstand my intent there may be others who won't say so in words similar to his. If that's the case, please let me know.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Have you tried other metal types, like the TaW the Ellsworth uses? Friendlier to work, and lasts very well. I have carbide from tooling that doesn't do as well because of the section they left for strength.

Say cad- Arch tends to be a pretty fair and open-minded cranky ol' coot. You might want to give his comments another read- from what I got out of it, it would seem he was backing you up a bit, even though there were a lot of negative words in the salad.

Looking at it in the way I think he intended it- (though I'm sure he can and will jump in for himself!) It would seem to be a post that supports going against the norm (if there are any in woodturning) by revisiting the use of carbide in turning. A lot of folks will use nothing but HSS- often more because somebody told them that carbide won't work more than because they tried it and it didn't.

FWIW, I can't see why it wouldn't- sure, I've seen the "con" arguments, and they have some validity in the context of a full-length flute of carbide, or on the nose of a roughing tool, but then I think about my freud blades and router bits. Granted, in those cases the carbide is spinning instead of the wood, but they sure do cut nicely. Perhaps the general disregard of carbide in a turning context comes less from the material than from the original testers using the wrong insert- or maybe it just didn't work for them for some other reason. I can't imagine being able to do much of anything with a standard W insert from a metal lathe- there's not a sharp edge to speak of there. But touch a finger to the tip of a fresh-sharpened blade, and the tune changes a bit- not all carbide is the same.

I hear ya. I'm still trying to figure out how it is that BS has become more valuable than quality material goods.

And we're glad you did. I had forgotten all about testing out a carbide insert on the lathe amongst the rest of the clutter floating about in my head, and it was a good reminder.

As above- I doubt Arch, of all people, was trying to humiliate you. I'm quoting him below to make it easy to revisit.

If you can handle the Midwest and feel like relocating, there are more CAD jobs than can be filled- at least in NW Wisconsin. Takes about 24 hours from the initial application to reporting for work in these parts, they're looking that hard. Might be worth looking into, depending on how well the turning is going for you.

Hi Cad I KNOW you misread Arch's reply to your post, Arch is as open to innovation and trying new things as any of us, he never stoops to insult or belittle posters for their beliefs or thinking.

I would go as far as saying he's the stirrer of grey matter on this loose band of turners/posters, and if you will hang around here a little longer(I hope you do) you will find out for yourself.

As for the use of carbide to turn wood, I know carbide is a brittle material, they have used layering etc, to improve on that, but the acute angles that are used for cutting wood are not helpful in that regard.

Also the need for sharpening with more exotic equipment that is not present in most woodturners shops doesn't help matters.

I have made my living in the metal industry,and with that knowledge, all the negatives are not worth the positives for me, turning wood as a hobby.

If it works for you, and I hope it does, I love to hear about it, even if it proves me wrong, I have been you know, more often than I will admit to.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

cad wrote:

Well it seems I owe you, and the group, a sincere apology and can only blame it on my ignorance. I mistook your intent obviously and I do humbly apologise.

Your vocabulary far exceeds that of my own, and even though I looked up some words I was unsure of it seems I was still off.

I am a simple old white boy with no college ed except for computer sciences. I have tried to improve my english skills over the years but havent reached the level of yours for sure.

Please accept my apology Arch, and to the rest of you I guess I better do some more homework on my english if I am going to be a member of your group. Sorry for offending.

I agree that carbide is not much good for turning. But from my years machining, I new that a bit with a deep cup on top, or a ground in relief on top making look kind of like a fish hook in profile, it would slice instead of scrape.

I had to play with this angle a lot. It doesnt take much for it to simply dig right in the wall and gouge out a channel half an inch deep in split second. I actually hung my lathe up to a dead stop once trying it.

But 30 degrees seemed to be the magic angle.

Again though, my sole intention was to speed just the hollowing portion, then switch over to a finer set of bits to make a smooth wall.

But what made me so happy was that I could hollow safely and quickly, then turn to the f> cad, I'll try to explain, but if you still don't understand my intent,

Hi cad, your explanation is accepted and done with. Your irate take wasn't the first and won't be the last. I've been there more than once.

I can't resist asking if you wrote your web site, because there are some sizable words there. :) Pretty good for a good 'ole boy. Like you, I assume that stance sometimes. Grew up on a turpentine still, trudged thru the snow to a one room school. survived on carrot soup, etc, etc. etc. :)

BTW, I enjoyed your site. Welcome to rcw. I look forward to your participation.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Thank you Arch. When I do someone wrong unintentionally, or unjustifiably, it really bothers me...very much. I try my best to live by the golden rule but sometimes I dont get the intention, in text messages. Then I wrongly bash the sender, oh well thats done. But thank you. I appreciate your understanding.

Yes I did all my website, and do. I tried web marketing starting in

2001 when I saw my company ship was taking on water in an attempt to build a good income by time it went under. I had one really good year, but , home biz marketing requires way too much time and money to make a decent living.

I actually have two other sites I created. One offers web based advertising and email advertising to home bizzer's, and the other offers ad copywriting. Both did well when I was advertising them. But spending all my profits on advertising got old.

I turned to retailing someting I could make, and love making turned objects so much I decided to pursue it. As it turns out though I make most of the money from this site, from the turning blanks I sell to fellow turners.

It doesnt pay the mortgage but it will put some gas in the jeep and buy a pizza once in a while.

You will see my site on Yahoo soon though. I have purchased some keywords with them. It was costly but I hope it will get me some clients for my talents.

Thank you on the compliments to my web publishing. I would like to do better at it, but there just isnt enough time going to school and studying at home.

cad

Arch wrote:

I think I like carbide so much because the edge you do have holds up so long and you have less downtime sharpening.

Yes, it isnt the best. Bad choice of words > >

Nah. We're all simple folk here, more or less. Whether words we use are expansive or humble, the message itself is the important thing. Keep on posting and don't worry about it overmuch. This really is one of the most civil newsgroups I've ever encountered, and the folks here don't seem too inclined to hold a grudge over a simple misunderstanding.

The carbide thread has been enjoyable food for thought, and I'm glad you brought it up for reconsideration.