Finish to Box Elder to preserve the red color

...I was hoping you had a solution

We don't have that wood around here, so anything I would say would be hearsay and rumor. All I have ever read seems to indicate that the red goes away most of the time.

But Steve Russell posted this about 10 years ago here. You might want to email him on his site directly and ask him if he has any further thoughts on the subject.

Robert

As far as I know there is no way of preserving the red in Box Elder. One method I read sometime ago in a woodturning blog was to air brush the piece with a similar color. I have never done this so don't know how acceptable the results would be, not something I would attempt to do, sounded like a job for Bin Pho. I have done quite a few box elder bowls and short of advising customers to display away from direct sunlight there is no magic fix. I recently had a customer call about her box elder bowl that had been chewed up by her dog and wanted to know if it could be fixed (fortunately it was a small dog and repairable). It had been 4 years since I had see the bowl and although it was still attractive it had lost a fair amount of the red color. She had displayed it away from direct sunlight but fading still occurred. Since I had advised her this would most likely occur she wasn't complaining, still loved her bowl but of course, without teeth marks. Sorry this is not what you wanted to hear and I sure hope someone has an answer for you because I too would be interested.......Ralph

Guess it would help if I posted what I found, eh?

From Steve:

******************* You may be interested in a bit more on the Box Elder. The red is indeed caused by a fungus, but it is not spalting. Common misunderstanding. The (red) fungus is only active when the tree is living. After the tree is cut all further (red) fungal action and growth stops. Therefore, it will not get better with time, like traditional spalting, which is grows in/on dead wood. Other more robust fungus types take over when the tree is dead and begin the decay process. If you wait too long, all the color may be lost as you found out.

You can save the red, but you may have to use UV inhibitors and you still get some loss. It can be done and I have seen pieces several years old that still exhibit the red streaking. Some had UV protection, others did not. It's a crap shoot, but worth the effort. I have some Box Elder Burl that has some red streaking, alas, precious little. Have a small bit more of the plain (non Burl) Box Elder that is full of the red streaking. Good luck in your turning!

Letting the chips fly... Steve Eurowood Werks

*********************

Robert

The Acer negundo (Manitoba Maple AKA box elder) does get fiery red at times in places, almost always is there deterioration in the wood when this happens, and in places where there's figure or burl wood, the light red that is here and there in the tree does happen without the wood getting soft, IOW in the normal wood. You can't keep the red red, the color just changes and after a few months to maybe 3 years at most there's hardly anything left, that has been my experience anyway, even when kept in the dark the red will disappear, but it does take much longer. I have two small (6") platters that I turned in 2003, it was blood-red burl, they sit in my pool-room and there's no natural light entering in there, they still have some red now, more on the bottom side than the top side, so the lamp light must also influence the color. I never use a uv protector film, it's not worth it IMO.

My understanding of how the red occurs is by a secretion deposited by an insect that stains the wood. That is why you will see the holes created by the insects throughout the wood. Am I wrong here? That is what I tell all my customers.........Ralph

The Acer negundo (Manitoba Maple AKA box elder) does get fiery red at times in places, almost always is there deterioration in the wood when this happens, and in places where there's figure or burl wood, the light red that is here and there in the tree does happen without the wood getting soft, IOW in the normal wood. You can't keep the red red, the color just changes and after a few months to maybe 3 years at most there's hardly anything left, that has been my experience anyway, even when kept in the dark the red will disappear, but it does take much longer. I have two small (6") platters that I turned in 2003, it was blood-red burl, they sit in my pool-room and there's no natural light entering in there, they still have some red now, more on the bottom side than the top side, so the lamp light must also influence the color. I never use a uv protector film, it's not worth it IMO.

Maybe sometimes, I don't know, but I never have holes in my box elder and I get lots of red color. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but that's my experience here in Colorado. -mike p

Ralph I think you are at least half right, the info that I have is that the red coloration is a byproduct or reaction from a fungus invading the wood, the fungus is carried from one tree to the next by insects that bury into the wood, (injured and damaged usually) but the fungus can go much farther in the wood than the insects go, or at least initially. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Subscribers sent the following question to me:

I think you're thinking of ambrosia maple...

...Kevin

On Mar 7, 9:57 pm, Kevin Miller wrote: Hi Kevin No I'm quite familiar with Maple that has the Ambrosia beetle stains, these stains are the byproduct of the fungus they cary along with them, but is restricted to just a narrow area around the tunnels that are made, and look more like wide lines, there are so many fungi and some cause discoloration and some do kill the trees, you are probably aware of that, like the Dutch Elm disease fungus (Ascomycete micro fungi) or the Sweet Chestnut Blight, but they also cause, the Blue mold in lumber, here's a link to that,

and here's some info on the Acer Negundo (Manitoba Maple aka boxelder) staining,

(196201%2F02)54%3A1%3C91%3ARSOAN %3E2.0.CO%3B2-N Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

And this fungus dies with the tree, so the color does not spread after the tree dies, and fades as the wood ages (sigh)

(196201%2F02)54%3A1%3C91%3ARSOAN%3E2.0.CO%3B2-N Interesting - I didn't realize that beetles were involved w/box elder as well. Thanks for the links. Now if it just grew around here! Oh well.. ...Kevin

Thanks Leo, that sounds like what I was trying to say............Ralph

Fred, I have Box Elder pieces that are 15 yrs pld and are still red. They have an oil finish and I keep them out of the sun. For pieces that have faded, you can resand the surface to regain the red color again. Ron

I did a lot of searching and reading on the red stain in box elder and other woods. It appears the stain is a stress reaction by the living tree. Stress can happen in the tree from insect attack, or physical damage, or wind damage and other causes. It is not a fungus and there has not been any evidence of fungal attack in any of the samples that were examined in labs. Like all stains and dyes both natural and man made it is prone to fading if exposed to UV light. So to reduce the fading it would be very prudent to use a finish with very high effective UV blockers in it. Look at marine grade finishes for the maximum protection. I have done only a couple of pieces with the red stain and both are as red now as the day they were turned (4 years) and both were finished with a marine varnish with UV protection and have also been kept out of direct sunlight. HTH

Hello,

Here is a link to lots of information on the red stain in box elder... Happy reading!

And here's the other story of the Manitoba Maple red stain, wonder who is right ???

(196201%2F02)54%3A1%3C91%3ARSOAN %3E2.0.CO%3B2-N Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo