If you could ...

It's easy to say that I would have not purchased a small Craftsman table saw 7 years ago, and instead saved up for a really nice table saw. Then again, 7 years ago I had no idea that I'd be so into woodworking years down the road - so maybe that $200 saw shouldn't be considered a mistake.

Here's one though: We decided that buying rough cut lumber beat the pants off of dealing with the garbage available at HD/Lowes, and purchased a 6" Jet jointer and a planer. A year and a half later, I'm wishing that we'd gone with an 8" jointer, with longer tables. (Why does it seem like most of the boards we end up with are 6.5 or 7 inches wide?!?!)

Mike

And when you have that 8" jointer, it's remarkable how many nice boards are wider than that. Now, if only I'd have bought that 15" Northfield....

It never ends.

Back the what the OP said, I'm not sure (as a hobbyist) I would have done anything different. Maybe I could have avoided a few turkeys masquerading as tools, but for the most part it's been a learning experience. An education costs money. No way around that.

BTW, in the beginning, all my tools were Craftsman. Not all were bad. The floor standing ones were good, the hand held ones (power) were/are uniformly bad. In every case they provided a learning experience. Not only in how to use it but also what to look for in a better example of it's kind.

Instruction. If I had it to do over again, I'd get lots of expert instruction from day one. It's too hard to try to discover everything about woodturning on your own. Getting started right can save years and years of mistakes and frustration. Musicians take lessons, athletes have coaches, why would we as woodturners want to give up the advantage of instruction and learn the hard way? I know it's fun to tinker and figure things out for ourselves, but it's called "learning the hard way" for a reason. Woodturning should be fun. How many beginners experience catches or are afraid of their skew? How fun is that? And learn from true experts - they won't start you down the wrong path like some less-than-experts who only think they know what they are doing. Learn to be versatile. Learn many ways to make a cut, mount a blank, apply a finish, or anything else we do. Then you can choose the most ideal method for each particular instance and not do everything the same way because it's the only way you know. Knowledge is the key to fun and success in woodturning. Books, videos, demonstrations, and symposiums are all sources of woodturning knowledge, but private instruction is *BY FAR* the best way to mastery. Do yourself a favor, treat yourself to some lessons, and maximize the fun and satisfaction from your time spent at the lathe.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

While I have not yet had any private instruction, I did just recently view my first video (Woodturning: Fundamentals of Sharpening) from AAW. It was a good thing to see skilled hands performing this essential skill.

I'll take that back ... I took a class at Woodcraft in using the router. In that case (and having been an instructor myself) I don't think I got my money's worth. But there are any number of individuals (including a couple I know locally) who I'd like to learn from. Although I'll agree that the education I might get from it would be more than worth the expense, traveling somewhere in order to pay a high tuition for a week or even a weekend, just isn't possible for me just yet.

I had high hopes for that router class, but the joints I made (using the instructors jigs) were better than the ones he made using the same jigs. Printed material for the class consisted of Shop Notes photocopies and he touched on too many topics to actually teach any of them ... finally ending the class a half-hour early so some of the guys could go watch some game or other.

Even so, I'll be keeping an eye out for a local class from a better instructor.

Good tip.

Thanks, Bill

Read this, by Mike Dunbar:

Read #5 over and over... Read it again before applyign a finish.

To relate it to my own experience, money spent on hands-on instruction and books related to woodworking, finishing, and sharpening, has returned a far better profit than most of the "time and labor saving" gadgets I purchased as a beginner.

Luckily, much of the crap was easily sold on eBay.

Same reason that if you had the 8" your boards would be 8.5" wide.

For me, it's a hobby. So I have that slant. The rest of your post sounds like a business so I'm not sure I can help. But fwiw:

I'd avoid benchtop tools entirely.

I'd find grizzly first (rather than after buying the tools), go there to check things out in person (which I still haven't done), then not be a delta snob. Now that I have several delta and several grizzly tools, I'm kicking myself for not finding griz sooner.

I'd always buy the best tools I could afford even if it meant getting one good tool instead of two medeocre ones.

I'd give more thought to (pricey) hand tools up front rather than buying the cheap ones, skipping all that useless info about sharpening, then passing judgement on hand tools as too hard to use. :-)

I'd start out on smaller projects first rather than aiming big up front.

I'd give a lot more thought to where the shop is and how nice it is to be there. I'm getting sick of sharing the garage with all the bikes and lawn equipment and putting up with the cold weather. We're getting ready to move. As soon as we're in the new place, i'm building a dedicated shop. SWMBO is on board already. :-)

I'd start out with more disposable income. :-)

Yeah, i'd skip HF for almost everything except the really cheap odd-ball stuff. I might buy a bench grinder or a vice from them for example, but never anything that I would need or expect to be accurate.

The down side here is that you may get bored with what you're making. The upside is that you'll nail the process and get really efficient. You'll also have all the jigs and patterns figured out.

This is just good business sense.

Maybe you could come up with a jig that would let you crank them out in seconds rather than hand-turning each one. Then you could sell them as discount models.

brian

Ha! This is exactly why I started with a riser block when I bought my

14" bandsaw. It wasn't because I wanted to resaw 12" boards. It was because I wanted to resaw 7" boards.

After the delta benchtop jointer mistake, I jumped right to the 8" grizzly dj-20 clone.

I can't believe I actually had foresight for a change. :-)

brian

I agree with you about HF, but not about custom work. What fun is building inventory? It is the challenge of doing something I haven't done before that is enjoyable.

"Bill" wrote in news:12jtufon3334t83 @corp.supernews.com:

Let's talk about HF. To buy mainstay tools (I think you mean the major tools in your shop that are used to run your business etc.) from them would be much less than smart. To buy any tool sight unseen is a question of faith and hope. If you wish to buy a HF tool, visit a HF store and place the tool in your hand. I have several HF tools and they are satifactory for my use. Clamps (Pittsburgh), HSS turning tools (don't particularly like the grind) for a $35 price per set of eight are a very good buy. Many turners in this group feel the HF lathes are a good buy. Building an inventory can be tricky. Pens, bottle stoppers and utilitarian bowls etc., are the most common turnings I've seen at shows and shops. I think people are getting less than excited with them. With a bit of practice, most turners can turn very nice examples of them to sell. Pens, stoppers, dibbles, etc. don't have a high overhead, so building an inventory doesn't involve a large outlay. If you are capable of doing custom work, do it by all means. The challenge is there and the rest is practice. The turner makes unremarkable wood, REMARKABLE. How did you acquire all those pen blanks? A good price may not always be a good price. Hank

"Bill" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

What subject did you instruct/teach?

Not a mistake at all. I did the same thing, not knowing if I had the talent to do reasonably decent woodwork; turns out I can do OK. I used that saw for two years and gave it away and bought a Delta contractors saw.

I do regret buying that Craftsman router though. I've not bought a cheap tool since so it was a lesson learned.

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie. turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality work!

For what its worth

Bob London, Ontario

Bill wrote:

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie. turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality work!

For what its worth

Bob London, Ontario

Bill wrote:

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie. turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality work!

For what its worth

Bob London, Ontario

Bill wrote:

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie. turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality work!

For what its worth

Bob London, Ontario

Bill wrote:

Well, it was unrealated to this forum, but I taught adult HS dropouts (the PC term is "non-completers") how to use computers in a business setting. I taught word processing, database and spreadsheet design, operating system manipulation. I had 480 class hours and I beat up on them.

But any who passed were hireable ... and that was the goal.

Bill

That page is now a permanent part of the hard-copy manual I am making for myself. Page one.

I am just now learning (thunk, thunk, thunk ... anyone in there?) about good tools vs cheaply made tools.

I still think that the best overall strategy includes a mix of top end tools and barely-adequate tools. And I think that it takes actual shop experience to know where to shave the corners and where to pay top dollar.

When I came into a LOT of "rough-sawn but worth having" salvage stock (including 10/4 tamarind) I bought a jointer and a planer ... at HF. Though miles away from being 'top end', the jointer is more than adequate for my current, and currently envisioned, uses. But that planer is on the jettison list because of an inherent design flaw ... the table moves rather than the head. That makes it effectively impossible to give it larger feed tables and reduce or eliminate the snipe.

I scraped my knee on that one, but, because it didn't nick me for big bucks, I didn't shoot my foot off. I now have enough experience that I will be able to purchase my next one in a reasonably intelligent fashion.

Would I buy HF again? Maybe.

Their nitrile gloves seem to be plenty good enough to protect my hands from finishes and adhesives. Their 8 pc lathe tool set is (and I HAVE now bought a few high-end tools) an excellent value for the money. I would urge new turners to begin there and build out from that starting point. Their bar clamps work about like brand-name bar clamps of similar design. Their respirators seem to meet the same standards as others with the same gubmint ratings.

I doubt if I'll ever buy another of their lathes (I own two)and I am MUCHO not happy about having to order replacement blades for the planer and the jointer online.

The old principle still applies ... caveat emptor. That is, let the 'buyer beware'. Not all HF stuff is of inadequate quality, not everything at Woodcraft or Rocklers is worth hauling home, either. Sit up straight, look directly ahead, get rid of that gum and fer cryin' out loud, pay attention!

If someone is a hobbyist I would urge them to go slowly with major tool acquisitions, taking the time to do careful research. If a business person, there is no substitute for knowing your business ... all of it.

Bill

Freebies cut on my HF bandsaw. ;-)

Bill