Where do you start?

Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles, but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me. It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
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_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
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Reply to
Darrell Feltmate
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with it but still its only good at 1 thing.
Reply to
James
Boy is Richard Raffan ever going to be disappointed when he reads your comments.......
Reply to
M.J.
I guess that if I was going to start a student from ground zero, I would start with bowls because that is what I am best at, and most familiar with. The first thing I turned was a spindle with beads and coves, straight from the Richard Raffin book.
I did see Chris Stott, and a comment he made was," some say to use the point of the skew, some say to use the heel, I say use this." and he held up a spindle gouge.
The Richard Raffin basic turning video was the first turning video I ever saw, and I was amazed to see him use the skew as a roughing tool in a cutting method, not as a scraper. That was one of my turning epiphamies.
I have seen pictures of the Oland tool, and don't get it at all. It looks like a scraper tip on round bar stock. Is it a roughing tool, kind of like the 'Big Ugly Tool' that we have here in Oregon? Does it sheer scrape/cut?
I guess no clear cut answers here, just as always, do what workd best for you, but don't be bashful about trying something new.
robo hippy
> > Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The > > skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with > > it but still its only good at 1 thing. > > > > > Boy is Richard Raffan ever going to be disappointed when he reads your > comments....... > > -- > > Regards, > M.J. (Mike) Orr >
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Reply to
robo hippy
...snip...
I've watched a very fine, fast, and prolific turner (Martin Pidgen) turn many beads with a 3/8 beading and parting tool. I bought one from him and now turn beads with it unless they are very small. In that case, I use either a 1/8" parting tool or a 3/8" round skew. And, I do not scrape with any of these tools -- I get a good finish.
The French use a bedan -- I've tried it but don't like it as of now.
I also watched Raffin bead the entire outside of a bowl (not a spindle) with a spindle gouge.
Bill
Reply to
Bill Rubenstein
I have always had difficulty with a skew. I aggree it's only good for making vee cuts. The Robert Sorby spindle master does everything a skew does with none of the problems and in my opinion gives a better finish
Tom
Reply to
T. Dougall
RH The Oland tool is a cutting tool. It looks like a scraper if you are used to the Ellsworth style hollowers as he got some of the idea for his scrapers from Knud Oland. The tip on the Oland is sharpened to 45* and used as a cutter. Shavings roll.
______ God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS, Canada
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Reply to
Darrell Feltmate
So we have bedans; beading and parting tools; spindle gouges; spindle masters and skews for many of the same cuts. I would also put skewchigouges and three point tools in there. Could there be more than one way to skin a cat? ______ God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS, Canada
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Reply to
Darrell Feltmate
In article ,
You make me wish I'd never learnt to use one *properly*! While it certainly isn't the 'be all and end all' and many beginners do have problems with it, if you follow the rules and use the correct portion of the edge, it can do a darn sight more than cut 'V's - something that is usually done wrongly, anyway!
Ken
Reply to
Ken Davis
Darrell,
Simply you were referring to newbies. I tried a skew again this weekend and think #@%&$#@!!!!!
No way can my wife handle this thing. If a really skilled & practiced person can make it talk, then I think that comes under advanced work. Personally started on a piece of side grain wet wood just fiddling with coves, beads and a spindle gouge. She's getting more from that while trying to be precise to a pattern than anything she did with bowls. I agree the skew cuts an awesome V. Just that it catches better than Johnny Bench.
I did notice something I'd missed before on an Ellsworth vid. A detail gouge with a convex bevel for parting his bowls. I found it works great versus the usual concave.
TomNie
Reply to
Tom Nie
In article , snipped-for-privacy@charter.net (Tom
Try using a 3/8" beading and parting tool to take a planing cut - or better, sharpen it like a skew. You should find it difficult *to* get a dig in. A well known pro turner in the UK, Ray Jones always uses that one and decries the advice a lot of others give to get at least a 1" one.
Even with a wider one, though, if you just present the tool, short point down and with the edge between that point and about a third of the way along to the wood, it should plane fine. It's when you try cutting closer to the long point that the tool is then out of balance and will pivot around its point of contact on the rest and dig right in.
That - and being frightened you will get a dig, are in my view, the main causes of problems but, at least until you've succeeded that way, never use it with the long point down except for cutting vees - and cutting them, don't just point the tool at the wood and hope. Cut to one side of the intended line of the vee and then cut down each side in turn until you reach the depth you want, *where* you want it.
Ken
Reply to
Ken Davis
Tom... you haven't tried an oval skew yet, have you? (nag,nag)
Take one of your skews and file or grind the corners off the shaft from the cutting edge to past where the skew rests on the tool rest... Play with a piece of scrap, rotating the skew so that the point is "pointed" slightly down... the only way it will catch now is if you dig the heel in (which can be rounded when you sharpen) or hit the damn handle end with a mallet.. *g*
I've been amazed how much difference rotating the skew a bit makes... not only in catching but in smoothness of cut... YMPWV Mac
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Reply to
mac davis
Tom I hear ya. Besides, a spectacular catch is good for a heart check. And I have had a few (or more) catches that is :-) thing is, after a hundred or so Christmas ornaments, the skew gets to be an old friend. Practice, practice, practice... ______ God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS, Canada
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Reply to
Darrell Feltmate
wrote in message > Try using a 3/8" beading and parting tool to take a planing cut - or
Better yet, use a wider straight chisel. Skews were designed to plane wood, not form it into beads or coves. Used to have right and left hand versions so the bevel could be longer. For reasons unknown, manufacturers decided to give us this two-sided absurdity that people try to use for shaping. Some are even ground at angles which guarantee no real support from the rest.
If you're making chair legs, the skew's for you, the rest of the stuff is make-do, which can be handled best by another tool. Doesn't make a man out of you to use a skew for other than planing, but it will make a fool if you catch.
Reply to
George
Weed pots! Basically fat spindles with a hole in it for a dry flower or - a weed? Long sweeping cuts, beads, V grooves, coves, some end grain - and if you get bored, a loose ring or two. Doesn't use much wood - you can use just about any piece of wood, including prunings from a tree or from a douglas fir or redwood 2x4. Small enough diameter that a catch doesn't involve a change of under wear. Green or dry - try both - and everything in between. All can be done between centers and the hole done on the drill press - no chuck required.
You can try all kinds of shapes and find some that you'll use later on a larger actually hollow form (I still don't know when a bowl becomes a vase). Finding the proportions of a nice piece isn't a function of the scale - small, large or in between, nice proportions are nice proportions
You can make weed pots with just a couple of gouges - parting tool and a skew or spindle gouge, or try every gouge in that set you bought when you got the mini/midi lathe.
If you don't know what a weed pot is - have a look
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And if you want to develop some finesse with a few gouges make a bunch of hair sticks. You'll need to know how to get your edges really sharp though. With stuff this thin, turned between centers a dull tool will get one of these puppies flexing like you won't believe - and THAT typically results in a dig in, spiral cut, catch. When they happen, the piece can break and just fall down - or fly off in the most difficult to predict direction.
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Skip deep hollow forms until you have gotten to know your lathe, tools and ways of working with them that you're comfortable and compitent with. charlie b
Reply to
charlie b
In article ,
Having been away for about 9 days, I saw this on returning and I'm afraid I disagree completely. The problem was "digs" and I'd suggested trying a narrower tool - the 3/8" beading and parting tool or, preferably a 3/8" skew because digs are *much* less likely to happen with a narrow tool and, if you should still get one, not so drastic.
To then suggest a *wider* tool seems to me to indicate that the original problem is simply being ignored!
Ken
Reply to
Ken Davis
Rethink your disagreement. A wider tool is immaterial in catches - only so much involved in making the cut, rest being inertia. If you overbite, you catch. However, guiding longer on the bevel does help make a straighter planing cut by giving good reference on where you've been to control where you're going. This was/is the idea behind the skew design, get more bevel on the work by cutting the edge at a skewed angle the way folks were holding the square end chisel. With the skew you just move up toward the 11:00 position when cutting versus 10:00.
The square uses the same toolrest height as your gouge, but if you don't move up with the skew, you're asking for trouble, because the nose leads, and if it tips in - disaster. Straight chisel has no nose, and is normally used skewed so that the upper neglected catchy part lags the direction of the cut. MUCH safer, and with a longer edge available, adjustable to lengthen the time between sharpenings. Some people even grind their skews with a curve to put the catchy part a bit farther out of the way.
A narrow tool of either design, of course, carries its own problem set - shorter distance to the corners. A bit of inattention and you can hook even the lower corner in the piece.
Reply to
George
I've heard much the same argument from a turner demoing at out club, the month before Ray Jones argued - more successfully - the narrower tool.
Both views are, IMHO correct *but*, having tried both, I reckon that - for a beginner - the narrow one is *far* easier to learn on and almost impossible even to force a dig with.
Having got the hang of it, the learner can then have more confidence to use a wider tool, should he feel it necessary and, in my experience since starting to use the narrow one, it rarely, if ever, is.
It all ends up in personal preferences, anyway.
Ken
Reply to
Ken Davis
I think a significant factor has been overlooked - the diameter of the piece you're turning. If you're using a skew, straight edged or curved edge, to make planing cuts, long point UP, you're normally cutting/ shearing with the middle third of the cutting edge and TANGENT to the spinning wood, the bevel riding on the wood. The distance between the wood at the long point and and the long point as well as the distance between the wood at the heel corner and the heel corner is a function of BOTH the length of the cutting edge of the skew AND the diameter of the piece you're working on.
ASCII illustrations aren't the best but may make the point.
If you look at Examples 3 & 4 you see that on the larger diameter piece, the long point on the wider skew is farther from the oncoming wood than is the case with long point of the narrower skew . You'd have to move the long point of the WIDER skew FARTHER to have it contact the oncoming wood than you would with the NARROWER skew.
Example 1. Narrow skew, long point up, small diameter piece, piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view / /+---+ // \ + +
Example 2. Wide skew, long point up, large small piece piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view / / /+---+ // \ / + +
Example 3. Narrow skew, long point up, large diamter piece piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view /
/ +----------+ // \ / + \
Example 4. Wider skew, long point up, large diamter piece piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view
/
/ / +----------+ / / \ / / + \ Now if the piece is square intially and you're using a skew to rough it to round - then a wider skew is definitely the way to go IMHO.
Sure wish we could attach pictures to messages.
charlie b
Reply to
charlie b

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