M2 Steel source?

I'm looking for a source for M2 steel rounds and flats that folks have used, i.e. a vendor that will sell 12" rather than 12 feet.

Russ Ramirez

Reply to
russ.ramirez
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There are couple of places.

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and

The name escapes me, just when I need it most - someone fill in this blank

C_______ Big company with a parts book that would break a mules back.

Deb

Reply to
Dr. Deb

The "Mule-breaking" book is (not starting with C) MSC -

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Former competitor, now owned by same company, supposedly:
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Still separate and competing: The catalog they don't ever send to little guys (less of an issue now with the web site) McMaster-Carr
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Reply to
Ecnerwal

To which add Production Tool and J & L Industrial Supply (both have web sites I'm too lazy to scout out.) (36" lengths)

Might also check out any local salvage place such as "Crazy Benzy's" around Detroit. IIRC, A2 might also suit your needs.

Bill

Reply to
Bill in Detroit

I've got some old M2 punch tooling that is too hard for me to work with much at home. While I have uses for some of it, there's quite a lot more there than I will *ever* use.

They're round, but have shallow grooves every couple of inches for O-rings, as well as threads on one end and assorted punch profiles on the others. I haven't measured the length, but I'd guess they 8-9" long. Diameters range from .5" to 1.5".

Depending on how much you need, and whether or not you think these'd work, I imagine I could send you a few of the punches if you pay the shipping on them.

Contact me off-list at prometheus charter.net if you're interested.

Reply to
Prometheus

I knew there was a "C" in there some place. Hey, at my age, that is remarkable in and of itself. :-)

Deb

Reply to
Dr. Deb

Thanks all, I may have located a source called Griggs Steel. They specialize in tool steels and seem willing to cut to length for a small premium. I'll post a follow-up after ordering.

Russ

Reply to
russ.ramirez

Had another vendor to add to the list, upon reflection. Cincinatti tool steel will sell shorter (3'-6' lengths) as well, though I am not sure if that comes at a premium.

EMJ (Jorgensen) occasionally will sell cut offs from bar ends as well, though I am not sure offhand if they deal with M2.

Reply to
Prometheus

Russ, I have long been making my own lathe and other tools. I have the perfect site for you. Easy on the wallet, sell short sizes, and very prompt delivery with kind polite service. The link in on my webpage at the very bottom of :

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I have made some very dear tools from these guys stock. cad

Reply to
cad

Cad, I really appreciated your description of how to heat treat tools. I've read about it before, and always felt it was too confusing.

Reply to
Max

I have a very basic question. When you go to toolanddie.com's web site, they offer ground flat stock in O1, A2, 4142, etc. Are these considered HSS? I am looking for 1/8" thick scraper bits for a Basham tool.

Reply to
JoeD

Probably more information than you actually need.

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Google for AISI or American Iron and Steel Institute Bill

Reply to
Bill in Detroit

Nope- every one of those is different, and none of them are HSS (M2).

But for home heat treating, you're better off with one of the first two. The letters indicate what kind of quenching the metal needs to harden it- O1 is oil-hardening, which means you need to dunk it in a pan of oil to quench it. There are professional quenching oils, but I've heard a lot of guys say they just use transmission fluid. Usually the oil is heated a little (160-180* F, IIRC) to make the quench less severe. Keep a fire extinguisher on hand- the oil can start on fire when it reaches it's flash point.

A2 is air-hardening tool steel. It's easy to quench, because all you need it to let it air cool- but from what I understand, once it's hardened, that's the end of the game.

4142 is an alloy, and as far as I know, is not particularly good for making bladed tools, though it is very tough and wear resistant. Odds are, you won't be able to heat treat it at home- same thing goes for M2. Each require some pretty specific treatment that is out of range for most guys goofing around in the garage.

The blacksmiths I've talked to seem to like O1 the best. According to most of them, you'll get more blade out of that than M2, because you can heat-treat it properly at home, but you can't do much with M2.

Now, for the real answer to your question- Stop looking for bars of steel! If you just need scraper bits, you should be able to find short bars of M2 through most metalworking vendors. It used to be that machinists ground all the tools they used out of that stock, and it's still around. They should run about $1 a piece.

Reply to
Prometheus

JoeD, I used PM-C1018ON Marshallcrat (C1018) Low Carbon Onsize Ground Flat Stock to make my scraper bits.

This is the low end quality. But, in scraping,I never make pressure cuts. They are light barely discernable when I do it other than watching the obvious fluff that comes off of the bit. So I rarely get the bit hot.

On my scraper bits I gring one end with a radius point, probably about a 1/8th radius. The opposite end ground to a 1/2" radius for the actual finish scraping. I have a hole in the middle of the bit. When I need to remove heavy cut lines I use the 1/8" end. Then when I am ready to impart a smooth wall I reverse the bit 180 degrees and take light passes. A two in one bit.

You can get better steel, A2, that will hold an edge longer, but with the proper releif angle on the scraper bit it does a fine job for a long time.

I'm a very frugal person, by necessity. I dont have a nifty retirement plan and oodles of time to figure out what I will do each day. I am still trying to figure out how to pay two mortgages and a car payment on unemployment.

cad

Reply to
cad

Hi Joe

We have a member of our turning club here in London On, that makes the type of scraper bits you refer to. He gets used planer knives and makes them out of them, those planer knives he uses, are HSS. Score the knives and break into pieces, than grind to shape, the hardest part is making the hole, he uses carbide drills and burn them through. He sells them in three sizes, for $15.-- $20.-- and $25.--, the turners that have bought them say they cut better than the original ones.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Reply to
l.vanderloo

cad,

I'm offering this information from ancient memory so you might want to double check every syllable.

If you can bump your steel up to just 1020 (a tiny bit more carbon), you can harden it without any special treatment. ISTR you'll want a water bath for that one. This is a through-hardening. You can also case harden the 1018 buy cooking it in a bed of charcoal briquets. Build a good fire, heat the steel in a torch flame and insert into the charcoal, well buried. Allow the charcoal fire to die naturally. ISTR that this adds enough carbon to the skin to harden it when you re-do the heat / cooling cycle normally.

If not, try this: get your steel to a bright cherry and plunge it into a box of high-nitrogen fertilizer. Let it cool completely there ... overnight at least. This is a case-hardening which leaves a hardened skin on a softer middle.

When case hardening, grind to near-net size before hardening as only a thin layer will be hardened and major re-shaping will remove that layer.

Chemically speaking, this is how some of the fabled swords were hardened. Although, they used living slaves and convicts as the source of nitrogen. We have other, re-useable, sources. Urea fertilizer will set you back only 2-3 GBP for a lifetime supply. Or, use it for a few pieces and spread it on your lawn (well watered) or your neighbors lawn (without water). };-)

Reply to
Bill in Detroit

I won't say that the 1018 doesn't work for you, as it obviously is- but the problem with that material isn't a matter of whether or not you get it hot, it's the lack of carbon. Low carbon means two things, as I understand it. The first is that it is more malleable, which is a point in it's favor, and the second is that it is not hardenable- which is a big strike against it as a cutting tool.

Try one of these guys out, if you get the opportunity-

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You just grind the profile you need and away you go. They should be heat-treated already. Couldn't tell you anything much about the site these are on, it was just the first one I found. They do come in different sizes, and should fit into even a very tight budget.

Reply to
Prometheus

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I like the store, but their toolbits are a little pricey at $1.29. Most people get them from a company like ENCO Current ENCO prices for M2 toolbits: $0.49 1/8 x 1/8 x 2 1/2 0.55 3/8 x 3/8 x 2 1/2 0.72 1/4 x 1/4 x 2 1/2 0.84 5/8 x 5/8 x 2 1/2

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They go on sale often. Some buy by the dozen. Enco also has 3 ft Drill Rod. A-2 is Air Hardened.
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1/2 inch by 36" is $18.91

Combine these and make a Oland tool. I haven't made one yet (it's on my todo list), but cut the drill rod in half which gives you a 18" metal holder to mount in a wooden handle and $10 each. The toolbit goes at the end of the drill rod. You could also grind your own profile I guess.

People usually wait until they have a $50 order (or more), and use the ENCO coupon code so they get free shipping.

ps. Enco has 4 kinds of drill rod A-1 Air Hardening D-1 Air Hardening O-1 Oil Hardening W-1 Water Hardening

They have air harden flat stock, and machinist tools, etc. I have lots on my TODO list.

Reply to
Max

Wholesale Tool Co

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carries M2 toolbit stock. Squares up to 1/2 in and 6 in long, and M2 rectangular stock up to 4 in long

Reply to
Bradford Chaucer

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