(Q) Practice segmented turning with SYP

Hi. If you're "totally new to wood turning", you're putting the horse before the horse. Start out with spindle work and learn the use and feelof your turning tools. Go from that to simple faceplate work and then to deeper bowls and hollow forms. When you've got that under your belt, try the segmenented bowls. If you haven't gotten any of the basic books on turning, do that to help you get a leg up. Better yet, find someone local and have them help you learn.

Dave in Fairfax

Well, "totally" may have been inaccurate. I have done spindles, pens, and small bowls. But by the same token, I approach everything this way - Jump in with both feet running.

You're right about the books! However, I've read much of the last 6 months of this group and numerous websites. A small lathe and turning tools (which cost twice as much), and holidays approaching doesn't leave much room for extra expendatures - yet. Time for another disapointing trip to the local library - so I can look at 10,000 tomes on personal improvement, weight loss, and make-up application - only to go home and buy something off Amazon :-\

Thanks,

Greg G.

Then I guess the answer is yes SYP can be used, but you've got to have SHARP tools. Hardwoods air-dried, cut easiest after wet wood. Then kiln-dried hardwoods. Softwoods require very sharp tools. All this in general, some rules to be broken, but good enough for a thumbnail sketch. Free, wet wood cuts easiest, remember the anchorseal.

Dave in Fairfax

I don't know why you can't use whatever you have on hand for setting up and tweaking your jigs. The jigs are for getting the correct angles so there is no need to actually turn the ring. Once you are satisfied with the jig then switch to an inexpensive hardwood to get some practice gluing up the actual pieces.

Good luck.

Stuart Johnson Red Oak, Texas

No reason for the jigs, but I want to practice *turning* the end result as well. I am assuming that segmented bowls - or worse, an open segmented bowl - may place varying (even impact) loads on the tool, and that a technique has to be developed to compensate for varying wood grain, hardness, and the transition from wood to air.

Of course, I could be assuming incorrectly... ;-)

Greg G.

OK - that makes sense. I know the grain variation from soft to hard resinous wood makes pine somewhat difficult to deal with.

As for the end-grain sealer - I started collecting some wood a few weeks ago, and have been using paraffin mixed with mineral spirits - I had it on hand. Used it on magnolia, cherry and pin oak. Seemed to stop the severe checking in the cherry...

I have also seen numerous mentions of LDD - what is that?

Thanks,

Greg G.

When your wood is spinning at hundreds of RPM's, it's going too fast for you to think about "the transition from wood to air"--for God sakes, don't be so cerebral about it! :-) Sure, the tool technique is just slightly different for interupted cuts compared to solid wood. You are still rubbing the bevel as recommended by all the books, videos, and websites on gouge technique, but with some restraint on advancing the tool into the cut. If your speed is high enough, and tool is very sharp with an appropriate grind, it will be a piece of cake with the biggest difference from turning solid wood being the sound of the cut.

Also, when starting out with segmented turning using different woods, it helps to use only woods with similar working characteristics. Walnut and cherry are perfect matches not only because of the color differences and similar hardness, but they have very close rates of expansion/contraction during seasonal changes in humidity so are not likely to delaminate over time.

Ken Grunke

Gotta disagree with Ken a touch. High speed is not a requirement, and in my opinion, not even desirable. It doesn't improve your edge, and the increased kinetic energy may help the wood flex away from an improperly placed gouge, starting a chatter pattern. You position your tool _firmly_ on a close toolrest, set the heel so it touches the wood as it comes round, then move the handle until the edge enters the wood before advancing in the direction of cut. As you become more familiar with the cutting angle for your gouge of preference, you'll be able to start the nose directly. To visualize, rotate the piece by hand and take a few shavings to see what's working.

Oh yes, rubb> >

I've tried higher speeds, and I don't see any reason you would ever use them - other than for buffing or sanding. This thing goes up to

3900 RPM. I've used the bottom two speeds. The first thing I created was a miniature column - a doll house sized replica of the columns holding our porch up. And as the speed increased, so did the whipping of the part. It also seems to aggravate the consequences of a misplaced cut. And for roughing out 8" tree blanks, even the slowest speed of 500 RPM seems none too slow...

Having a new toy sitting in the garage pretty much precluded reading anything on the subject, I'm one of those stubborn, diehard, figure it out the hard way kinda people. ;-) So I pretty much discovered the tool angle deal on my own. On the first turning I played with each tool and experimented with it's behavior. It brought a smile to my face when the scrapings turned to ribbons of wood shooting out like a fountain - "Hey, this is pretty neat." Pressure on the tool is

*definitely* not needed - and would probably result in gouging, hangs, tool breakage and at minimum, bending of thin work pieces.

After the column experiment, I moved on to a lidded vessel turned from a green cherry limb. As it was kind of intuitive what each tool was designed to accomplish, I practiced leveling, beading, parting, rounding, etc. It turned out pretty well and I plan to post a pix to a.b.p.w. later today - look for it!

I am amazed at the power and heart the little Jet mini lathe exhibited. With this huge misshapen limb spinning precariously in it's jaws, I have yet to have the lathe even hint at slowing or stalling.

My last observation is this - What A Mess! There are ribbons of wood under, around and on top of everything within 10 feet! I would be most interested in other's ideas of dust/ribbon control! I have a DC for the all the flat woodworking tools, but there is not dust port on the lathe. ;-) I had to keep brushing piles of wood from under the lathe bed, for fear they would choke off the cooling air to the motor!

Now that I have some experience with these things, I can read up on the subject and better understand what the writer is explaining.

Thanks for the information!

Greg G.

It's just my nature, I'm afraid. Having an electronics and computer programming background, I plan everything and worry over every nuance of every possible complication. :-\

That's good to know. I'm going to experiment with a few segmented vessels - possibly next week.

Thanks for the info! BTW, I looked at your site - nice work! I especially liked the Spalted Maple lidded box with locking lid. I aspire to be a purveyor of fine artistic items to family, friends, and anyone with large amounts of cash... ;-)

Greg G.

OK, now use that analytical expertise and ask if you _want_ the shavings to fly. If they're flying, Newton says they're running from something. Only one place for a properly made shaving to go - down the flute of the gouge, or, if the gouge is cutting almost vertically, to the floor. While hogging the interior of a bowl they are carried away from you, but even there you can keep things neat by grabbing and bagging a double handful each time you move the toolrest.

When you get the twist and dr> >Oh yes, rubbing the bevel doesn't mean at right angles to it. That's

Good point! In defense of my ignorance, however, most of the *flying* was while roughing the blank. There was still bark attached and chips ended up everywhere. Then while cutting out the sapwood, I noticed that the stock removal went faster when they "flew" from the tip of the roughing gouge. During the actual shaping process, they did slide down the flute and build up on my hand and on the bench below in great mountains of curly ribbon waste. There was literally three inches of curls under my feet by the time I finished. All I could think of was, "what a waste of wood - what can I do with this stuff". Other than a handful used to burnish the final turning, it all ended up in a bucket and the shop-vac.

Didn't have time for such niceties - I just swept them aside onto the floor! ;-) Maybe next time!

The thing I really had trouble with was keeping waste cleared out of the interior of the vessel. Being wet, it seemed to want to build up around the outer edges of the vessel and was hard to brush out. I could use the tool in a fashion that would sweep most of them out of the interior, but there were some stubborn bits.

I didn't use sandpaper. I did run a green 3M sanding pad over the surface when finished, and then burnished it with some of the turning waste. But I found that a gentle, controlled application of various tools resulted in a very nice finish all on it's own.

I mostly need to get more experience and read up on various tip and techniques.

Thanks again,

Greg G.

No surprises there. Even dry, unless you have an outward taper, the stuff'll want to stay due to centrifugal forces. One advantage to hollowing with a pointy gouge is that you already have a path for the shavings - down the flute. I like to use a pointy gouge for initial space even when I'm going to transition to the Stewart tool, because it's self-ejecting.

You may find the burnish won't give you all you want. Though you've got wet fiber, which is easy to compress, it's easily torn away with your wool, so you may get some artifact as it dries, or as you add a polar solvent like alcohol. Not to worry, as long as it isn't gross, because it'll sand.

Tips are someone else's mistakes, at best. Urban legend at worst. You're just going to have to try, and never stop thinking as you weigh options.

Glad it's not just me having that problem. I'll try that when I *get* a pointy gouge.

I noticed some of the grain tearing at the pad, so I'm sure that the reverse happens as well. I also noticed that the time spent smoothing the piece was basically wasted, as the drying process introduced artifacts of it's own. It'll need sanding again.

I have a tome full of "tips" garnered by making hard-headed mistakes in my youth. Actually, it's a never ending process. ;-)

Thanks,

Greg G.