What do you look for on a woodturning club website?

As the new webmaster of the Silicon Valley Woodturners club I'd like to know what you look for on a woodturning club website?

Are you willing to download a 3 or 4 meg PDF newsletter?

Do you look for How To stuff or prefer to peruse plenty of photos of other folks work?

What about reviews of stuff - turning videos/DVDs, turning tools and accessories, lathes etc.?

Would like to make svwoodturners.org a resource for other turners. You're input would be much appreciated.

charlie b

Reply to
charlieb
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as the webmaster for another site

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I would encourage you to think of something that everybody and their brother doesn't already do on their site - some things seem obligatory, like news letters, and links. Beyond that, everyone already has tips and usually a gallery.

so the question is, what can you do that is different? I honestly don't know, but this could be a good place for the discussion

Reply to
William Noble

A friend was in a civic organization assigned to get guest speakers. He was told not to get a speaker that members probably have heard at other civic organization meetings. On the other hand, he was instructed not to get a speaker that no one had ever heard of. When pointing out the contractory instructions he was told to look for prominent unknowns.

The Everybody And Their Brother stuff is a waste of space and bandwidth - IF it basically a copy of something already available. However, given the Wild West nature of turning - no cold hard fast rules, and the More Than One Way To Skin A Cat thing, there may be value in showing two or three methods of accomplishing the same thing - and getting someone who has had trouble with one method to try one that might work better for them.

As a newbie, I found that there was a ton of information that those with experience assumed was common knowledge and not worth mentioning. Yet everything is built off fundamentals, much of which ain't necessarily obvious to a newbie and often isn't in any books or videos/DVDs. In solid wood furniture making, stock prep and the importance of doing it properly isn't all that obvious to a newbie. Buy boards from a lumber store and it's easy to assume that it's flat, with straight edges square to the faces, flat parallel faces and ends cut square. Marking parts so you can keep track of what goes where, and it's orientation is a newbie nightmare - though there is a simple "Triangle Method" that's an obvious solution - once you see it and how it's used. Marking reference faces, edges and ends can help a lot when it comes to mortise and tenon joints that require layout lines.

Now unlike the use of tools in other types of woodworking, turning is very dynamic - the cutting tool often having a curved cutting edge and requires the tool to be moved in several directions - while being rotated on one or two axis. Maybe videos are essential. But trying to video a cut can be really tricky. Simple animation without any distracting extraneous info might be better - and more easily understood.

Another approach would be to go for the weird - how to set precious faceted stones in turnings, how to vaporize precious or unusual metals onto turnings using a high vacuum system and an electron beam gun to vaporize the metal and spray it on the wood (you actually can do that), methods of electroforming metal onto a turned piece, making metal form inlays using the lost wax casting method, ...

Anyone want to jump in here?

charlie b

Reply to
charlieb

Personally, I don't know that I look for anything in particular in a club's website, but then again, the only club I'm in is a blacksmithing one that I've been too busy to attend in some time.

3 or 4 megs seems reasonable to me, with the prevelence of high speed connections- but your dial up members might not care for that.

Though as personal preference, and I may easily be alone in this, I'd avoid PDFs. Two reasons for that- first, I've got an older computer, and PDFs load each page much more slowly than I can read them, and the second is that a PDF doesn't allow you to cut and paste text. While that might be be good when you're trying to prevent the file from being altered by the reader, it makes links much less useful, IMO.

There is some nice technology out there for web-based newsletters, though. I think if I were to make one, I'd use flash for content that can be used to view it on the site, and just include a button that would link to a print version for those who want a hard copy. You do run into the fact that the end user needs the flash plugin, but that's not a huge obsticle, and I've rarely seen anything that loads faster and generates smaller files than flash (though the new photoshop gives it a run for it's money.) That also makes it possible for you to include demo videos and animated stuff if you want.

I like looking at pictures of other people's work- if it's not as good as mine, sometimes I can offer some assistance, and if it's better than mine, it's something to aspire to. I can't really see how much "how-to" stuff a guy could include regarding turning, but I don't suppose it would hurt to have a few plans for jigs, longsworth chucks, segemented turning, etc.

I think there may be too much of that already, but that's just my opinion on it. The problem is that when you get every amateur on Earth reviewing the one example of something they've used, it dilutes the value of reviews generally. Of course, I think we've all done it from time to time- I'm certainly guilty of it, but it might be doing a disservice to those who are reading the reviews. After a certain point, the reviews become almost meaningless.

You know something that might be kind of neat, if you want to be a resource for the larger turning community, is to have a section on math, geometry and artistic proportions on there. A lot of what the average turner does is more or less instinctual, but there are some projects where it would be a benefit to someone to have an easy reference page to use when doing something like laying out and cutting segmented ring pieces or trying to figure out what people mean when they mention a "fair" curve or the golden ratio.

It wouldn't have to be very intensive, and is probably better if it is not- I know that from my own experience that trying to track down something you don't know regarding a math (or chemestry) problem is often a frustrating task at any level. A few of the basics for those who aren't very well-versed in the subject might be valuable, and it's not something that I've seen on many sites. Judging from some of your projects you've linked to here in the past, I think you might be the right guy for that particular job.

Reply to
Prometheus

In message , charlieb writes

I am a webmaster of a site in a different field which has sat at the top of Google for the last 8 years, and I do not provide a news letter.

Depending if the content will contain personal information or not

What I would suggest is to Not have a news letter as such, but to have a News section on the website. Which you just add new articles to, or point to new additions to the website with a small intro. Members can then choose to visit as they want and see the news they want. This will first make maintenance of the site content easier, and secondly reduce the large download, or mailing.

If you want you could then do a one liner email stating that the news has been updated.

It really depends on if you want the site content publicly available or restricted to members

I don't know if you use a content management system, but if not I would recommend Drupal as a starting point. You can define who can access what on the website. So visitors get a small view, members the whole view.

If you want to know more let me know and I will contact you privately, as you probably guessed this email wont work :)

Reply to
John

Charlie,

I would urge you to make sure of one thing. Be absolutely positive that you can keep everything that you put on the site UP TO DATE. The local turners club has an extensive site with all kinds of ambitious stuff. The problem is that what is on there is so out of date that it tells you nothing about the club. The fact that they don't update has kept me from even considering joining. If they are that slovenly about their website I wouldn't expect to gain anything by joining. I even emailed them to suggest they clean things up but didn't even get a response. Take a look:

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Some of the stuff hasn't been updated for so long (2002-3) that they should be ashamed and some of the links have been "under development" for even longer.

Larry

Reply to
ebd

Congratulations. I've seen your personal site, and I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job for them.

Yes, but I'd rather read it in HTML That's my personal preference because I'm never that fond of PDF. And yes, I acknowledge that it's a ton more work to do it that way.

Both, but I'm a very green newbie to turning. I've seen Darrell's site and I'd be using parts of that as a model to emulate. His has a range of articles, from relatively simple to more complex. ie. Something for everyone.

But I think the real answer to this is to poll the audience. Specifically the SV turners. Sure it's worldwide but the majority of your viewers will be from the Bay area, and asking them what they want will give you a pretty good idea of how it should be laid out.

Different strategies can work out here too. With reviews, you can hook up with someone who does them and either copy their work if they're agreeable or link to them. The downside of that is the dependence on them doing a reasonable and fair job.

Another way to do that is to establish reputations for people you know from the club and get them to do all (or most) of the reviews, if they're willing to do that. Seeing a name I trust because of past work is more likely to get me to keep reading

This may be simply a personal irk, or just showing my age. But not much annoys me more than typos, grammatical errors, and poorly worded works. Spell check of course, but that still misses some glaring errors. If you can possibly find someone who's willing, get all the work previewed/edited/corrected before going live. DAMHIKT

Good luck, charlie. I'm sure it'll be a fine site

Reply to
Tanus

Charlie,

Like some have already mentioned, meet the needs of those the site is built for and keep it simple. Instead of including a bunch of how-to and articles, give them a links page that is FULL of links to sites that already exist (heck, I'd be a regular if someone could give me an all inclusive links page).

As Darrell said, a simple newsletter is a must. You've got to keep the members updated on what is happening. Not everyone will be able to attend club meetings every time, yet they are important members of the club.

Photos and videos? I'd create a small members "Bragging Room" site where members can show off what they've done. Use video as Darrell said to show short clips of guest speakers.

The main thing is to find 1 to 2 people in the club to help you with this. Building a web site is fun in the beginning, later it becomes boring and in the way of your quality turning time. With others to share the labor, the website won't turn into the link Larry wrote about.

Just my 2 cents, JD

Reply to
JD

Charlie, First you have to meet the needs of your Guild members and it is them you should be asking. I have quite a collection of bookmarks and links to Guild sites and have to say I rarely visit them more than once. Mainly they seem to be clones of each other and apart from some slight content differences, once you've seen one you've seen them all. Perhaps your Guild members would like a directory of local suppliers and services that members can add to. Also allows the Guild to contact the businesses with good user ratings to set up discounts for Guild members and also promotes local awareness in the business community that your Guild exists. There are some good ideas that jump out and hit you once in a while and this site has one.

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I'm talking about the International Competition. If ever there was a good way to draw repeat visits this is it. The rest of the site is the same old hohum stuff. I agree with other comments about updating the site, this is one of my biggest complaints about most sites, my own included. Good luck with your new site and I will bookmark it when you get it up and running.

Reply to
Canchippy

Re-posted for a reason... nothing is worse the "stale" info, like who is going the be the speaker, three months ago

Reply to
Ralph E Lindberg

Hey Charlie, since ya ask...

I was looking at AZ turning clubs this morning, looking for someone who might guide me to a local source of bandsaw blades/ saw shops.. Few had addresses, none had a list of the cities they covered..

Mostly links and ideas... and when I was in a club, how they were organized..

Not usually.. unless I lived in the area and knew the folks that the newsletter was about.. OTOH, maybe it would save on postage if the members could get the pdf and no snail mail involved?

How to, and especially your specialty, tips/tricks.. after all, we're (the AAW) a learning/recruiting body, right?

Not me personally, because I get that here, but it could get member participation up by having members do reviews..

I noticed a trend this morning.. Most sites have 1 or 2 folks that give all the tips and reviews.. Typical all over?

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Reply to
mac davis

Erkk... I have a friend that's in that club.. lol

I feel your pain.. When I lived in the States, it took me 6 months to FIND my local club because the contact for the club whose email and phone was listed for contact had been DEAD for a few years..

I have to wonder, though, if it was the clubs fault for not updating AAW, or AAW's fault for not updating the contact list..

If I hadn't of met a guy in a saw shop that turned out to be in the club, I never would have found it..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Reply to
mac davis

Dammit, Mac... if your going to type something like that, give fair warning. I just about spewed coffee all over the place.

Talk about out of date, our local club's website had one section updated every month to tell name of the guest turner and when it would start. The rest of the site went untouched for about 2 - 3 years.

This part is probably pertinent to Mr. Beldon -

Part of the problem they had with the site was they tried to be all things to all turners. They set up a member's gallery, tips and tricks, a recap and pics to the month's previous meeting, membership information and contact points for each, and on and on.

With all that in the monthly mix of things to do with the website, our webmaster was also tasked with trying to make the page work properly, answer questions about why the site didn't work with the Opera, or a

1924 Apple computer with a modem. He became tech support as well for all the computer illiterates.

He QUICKLY became overwhelmed. He struggled on for a while, others helping when they could, but it was too much. To make matters worse, we had a large portion of the membership that passed into retirement from professional life without ever touching a computer, and they were damn proud of that fact. So he got no support there, either.

This is what is up now:

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He was tired of the complaining, the "suggestions of how to make it better" that would take weeks of his spare time to make some of the lesser experienced (or lazier) people, happy. For me, I would think that putting up most of the pages in HTML would be great. But, making PDFs is a snap anymore (that's how I send contracts, invoices and inspection reports from my personal company), so I think that links to pdf as well as a pdf library is great.

And it is amazing how small a pdf can be when there isn't heavy background colors, multiple font colors and sizes, and not too many pics. A link to your club library might be a great idea for someone that wants to print and archive your club's work.

I personally thought our old webmaster could have saved himself a lot of heartburn and overwork if he had linked to other sites. I personally suggested that he link to Darrell's site when it was just a couple of pages, namely the pages he had on making the sharpening jigs. Why reinvent the wheel? I thought maybe a couple of comments, then the link, and then any other pertinent comments on that subject. The same with Bill Grumbines site (how to cut up a log), and some of the old links I had to segmented turning and pen making.

He felt like he needed to put original, Alamo Woodturning content on the site. He couldn't do it all; he has three kids, a wife, and a full time job. Just doing the page layout with pics and commentary on the month's previous meeting wore him out.

So, having witnessed your analytical mind on the matter of exploring and reviewing the Festool Domino, I think whatever direction you go in the site content will be great.

But I believe what I would be thinking of is who the site is actually for. Who will use it? Why is it there?

Is it an information depository and current events kiosk for your club's membership? Is it for your club to be able to archive valuable turning information and club milestones that really are to be appreciated by your own club? Realizing you will no doubt have visitors other than your club members, will the thrust be 80% for your club and 20% for others?

Or are you trying to be a nationally recognized site that others from around the 'net gravitate to so they can see something like going to the AAW site?

I think those are two entirely different things, and I think I would be more worried about the direction of the website first to find my target audience, then the content and delivery method of the information will sort itself out.

As always....

Just my 0.02.

Robert

(can you tell I can't go play outside today?)

Reply to
nailshooter41

I guess I fell into a classic newbie problem - too vague a question (more acurately many questions) and way too few details/specifics.

Plenty of great ideas and suggestions - both DOs and DON'Ts. Have gone through responses down to mac davis's post (1/10/08

0:51 am - PST/GMT?) and will download them and print them out so I can make notes before responding.

Thanks to all who responded. Look foreward to more input.

charlie b

Reply to
charlieb

Well, it's good to know they will be hosting the 2005 Totally Turning conference. I'll have to check back later to get the details. :-)

p.s. I am a member, and they are very active, but the web site is nearly useless. There is suppose to be a newsletter on the web site, but the most recent is a year old.

They asked me what skills I have when I joined, and when I mentioned computers, they said they had lots of people who were "skilled" in computers.

I think what they are lacking is someone dedicated to constant improvement and refinement of the web site. Or perhaps no one is willing to give one such person total control.

Reply to
Bruce Barnett

Reading through these posts reminded me of the 'create a group' button you see at the bottom of these screens. The button allows one to set up a group similar to this woodturning group except people can send e- mails with pictures attached (I set one up a crude test one to see what might work and you can do the same).

One of my assignments before retiring was to set up an 'intranet' (inside the organization) site for a county attorney's office. The whole idea was to lessen the need for programmers and let the people in the office post whatever they wanted to in different categories.

Does anyone have any experience with using a Google group for an organization instead of setting up a web page where a volunteer webmaster needs to be in the loop for getting anything put on the web page?

Although I assume I was just scratching the surface on what the Google group could do, it seems like they may be a better way to go for a turning club (at least at first) The Google groups are not as fancy but sound like a good way to get the word out on a club's activities. My guess is you get lots of valuable information from this Google group and there is no need for a webmaster to post your comment to this group.

Reply to
TWW

You do realize that this newsgroups has NOTHING to do with Google, right? It predates Google by years (and years). Google just carries it

Reply to
Ralph E Lindberg

In message , TWW writes

One thing to consider when looking at any service that is run by someone else, is do they as part of the terms lay claim to the copyright of the content ?

If you put up your website at your domain, then your material is your copyright. Other than that which is copyright someone else, but used by permission, though the format you chose for its display becomes your copyright.

If the service you use were to lay claim to copyright of your content then, it can get quite complex and messy if you include material copyright elsewhere.

Reply to
John

Thanks for the comment since it caused me to look a little. I have wished this group would allow pictures but assumed it was a Usenet group back from the old days and that was why. But then why do other 'Google groups' allow pictures.? In

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the author of the items says: "Google provides two distinct kinds of groups: traditional Usenet groups, and non-Usenet groups that are more similar to mailing lists. The Google Groups user interface and help messages do not use a distinct name for mailing-list style groups, referring to them as Google Groups. [1]

The two kinds of groups differ both in the technology used and how they are governed.

A Usenet group is decentralized and not hosted by any single organization. Google archives messages posted to Usenet groups and provides a web interface for accessing them, but many other organizations also provide access on an equal basis. Many organizations other than Google allow Usenet groups to be read with news reader software that uses the NNTP protocol. Most Usenet groups are unmoderated, which means that nobody controls who may post to them. (See Usenet.)

A regular Google Group is hosted by Google, although some may be archived elsewhere. These groups can be accessed using a web browser or by subscribing to receive email, but can't be accessed using a Usenet news reader. They have one or more owners who decide who is allowed to subscribe to the group and whether non-members can access the group. This form of governance is similar to that provided by many other mailing list providers (See Mailing list.)"

I assume if someone created a 'Google group' using the link at the bottom of this page it would be the second kind.

The Wisconsin Woodlot Owners created a 'Yahoo group' at :

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That is where I got the idea and was curious if other organizations are creating 'groups' rather than Web pages and if there were any reasons to go one way or the other (like copyrights mentioned in another posting).

Reply to
TWW

Charlie, The two clubs I belong to are blessed with computer people to post what an excellent writer has assembled, that is, a newsletter containing detailed description of the month's demonstrator, instant gallery pictures, tips and techniques. Reviewing the history is an education in itself.

Web site includes a communication setup to pass on email news or stuff for sale or etc. Mass emails work great.

Next year's demonstrator schedule is available with descriptions and links to their sites.

AAW link plus a couple others.

This thoroughness helps absent members keep up and refresh what they think they heard. I found in originally exploring turning that across the country you can learn a lot exploring their sites - some good, some not so good.

I've come to like and will participate this year in the one club's "Monthly Challenge". This amounts to 11 different projects with participation noted. End of year any that completed all receive a $50 gift certificate to the Klingspor store that hosts the meetings.

Good luck, TomNie

Reply to
TomNie

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