Why Imitate Another Medium (Segmented, etc.)?

Well, the segmented bowls I've turned may not be so fancy with all the exotics arranged just so, but if I have a board with a QS edge grain (like most of them), it produces a nice refractive effect with every

12th of a turn. Besides, it's a good way to make use of my scraps (aaaugh!), and keep wifey happier. Tom

Because we can, lad. Because we can.

Hello Charlie,

You are right, there are no stupid questions, mostly just stupid answers when someone asks what some feel are stupid questions.

The cowboy hat came into being back in the early 1990's when Johannes Michelsen turned a cowboy hat as a wedding present for a friend, who just happened to be the director of the Woodturning Center in PA. It went over well and he turned a few more, they sold well and he was asked to demonstrate how he did it and to teach people how. These are a very complex turning and show great skill. That is why people turn cowboy hats and other types of hats.

Most of the people who make complex segmented pieces enjoy the making up of the rings and designs. When I first started turning, I didn't have anything but flat boards to make bowls from. I used segmenting to make bowl blanks from flat boards. Mine had no fancy designs, they were just bowls made up from flat boards. As I recall, I had a lot of 1x2 inch stuff left over from some other project, cut them up into segments, glued them into rings, stacked the rings and glued them together to make a bowl blank. When I got hold of some larger wood, I quit doing segmented work. However, the people who do fancy segmented bowls and vessels like the design work and the making up of the bowl or vessel from a lot of small pieces. They do this because they like to do it and because they can.

Over the last few years, there has been a great deal of effort being put in by many woodturners to try to create "art", not by turning the piece, but by taking a turned piece and carving it, abusing it, burning it, texturing it, and even sawing it up and glueing it back together all in the name of art. The people who do this and are artists to start with generally do it very well and create some outstanding art pieces. Many people, who are not artists, try to do the same thing and the pieces they create turn me off completely. Why do they do these things, because "art" brings in more money than "craft" and people like to think their work is worth what they have put into it in time and material, plus a little bit more.

I probably haven't answered your questions, but maybe I've touched on some of the reasons why these things are done. In the final analysis, it is probably for the reason that someone else stated: because we can!

Fred Holder

Charlie,

Recognize that some people are task-oriented and others are process-oriented. Some focus on the result (which is what I see you doing) and others focus on the path to get the result (the people that hundreds of hours gluing tiny pieces of wood together to make it look like it isn't wood that is glued together). All points are valid. Different strokes for different folks.

Let me ask in return, "why would anyone bother to paint a realistic portrait when you could achieve a better result with a camera?" That question had a dramatic effect on the shape of modern art, but people still try to do it. To do it well in that manner is an impressive acomplishment. Achieving that is what is it all about.

David

charlie b wrote:

I look up from my desk and see :

1. Great Uncle Martin (name sake) Collar box 8" in diameter. Signed on the bottom - varnish. Martin Eastburn 1913.
2. Uncle Dave Cowboy hat (one of two in the house) made from solid Maple.

1. Uncle Dave large offering dish (candy fruit....) in Spaded Maple.

Uncle Dave retired and started turning and now has upgraded to his third lathe. He took three other men to buy it at the factory. Truck route and play in the factory fun for all of the guys. The group turns hats. It is some process and can be a real pain to produce the proper oval with a ... shape or a round or a ... Everyone has a unique shape head and the wet bowl is kept that way and slowly pressed to shape.

Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Fred Holder wrote:

Good Lord, someone who knows!

I was Rank Bajin for a wee bit.

As I'd hoped, mine wasn't a dumb question.

I'd not thought of using chatoyancy some woods exhibit as a critical design element

The idea of using small "scraps" rather than throwing them away or burning them is a good thing.

When wood in the desired dimensions aren't available, laminating readily available boards makes sense. But even in cities there are trees cut down and cut up. Being a good scrounger and networking with the city's tree cutting folks, arborists, tree trimmers etc. can provide plenty of stuff to turn.

Doing something no one's done before is admirable. Buying the "secrets" on a tape or DVD ...

I still don't understand why someone would spend hundreds and hundreds of hours making a tooth pick bridge unless they couldn't do anything else OR were trying very very hard to avoid something or someone.

In the furniture making part of my woodworking semi-addiction/ para-obsession/hobby, while requiring a bit of planning and pre-wood cutting/shaping. which are inter- esting, it's the part that is actually working with the wood that's most enjoyable.

It's a pity that "artists" get paid more for their work than a "craftsman". Could be that the latter is seen as someone who "merely makes what another designed" and therefore lacks the critical creative gift. But to me, it is obviously more difficult to make something that is beautiful to look at, nice to feel AND is utilitarian (see Sam Maloof's chairs, his rockers specifically, or a small Krenov cabinet)

The Art World (how presumptuous) is a speculative business. Works are not valued for the skill and, dare I say it, craftsmanship, but rather as a bet that its value will increase over time - sort of like the more crass stock market. There may be some appreciation of the piece, but that's secondary to the profit motive.

As for satisfying a need for self expression - I agree that there's a need that woodworking seems to fill. But for me, it's those instances when everything is going just so, the eye, the hand, the tool and the wood all work together just so - the Zen thing of suchness

With turning, for me, it's taking a piece of a fresh cut branch and discovering how it works with various tools - how it turns, that's the fun part. Being able to start with no idea of what will turn out and then watching something evolve as if by magic - in less than an hour - still amazes me.

Fun stuff woodworking. Turning is a pretty nice branch of the calling.

charlie b

Charlie, CAN you turn a cowboy hat? Me neither, but those who can have my utmost respect and admiration. So will you, if you learn how to do it well.

CAN you do segmented turning? Me neither, but again, those who can have my utmost respect and admiration!

What is it they say, "Different strokes for different folks!"

Barry

I would never be presumptive enough to call myself an "artist". On a good day, when all things are going my way.......great piece of wood.......razor sharp tools........not too hot or cold in the shop..........I might.......I say MIGHT.......be a craftsman. If I ever get referred to by someone else as being a "craftsman", my head will swell with pride.

Barry

Charile -

Several other things occurred to me while reading this thread:

1. With segmented bowls, you can easily save time and money by using flat wood and making it have a nice pattern or contrast or whatever.
2. It occurred to me that perhaps the challenge is not so much the turning as it is the process to get it. The building and avoiding cumulative mistakes that only crop up when completed.

By #2, I mean the craftsman may have a need to express his/her precision for something and doing a task that requires that precision may be very gratifying to that person.

I look at woodworking in two very different ways... First, with furniture, it has to be *precise* and *exact* to be completed correctly. Second, with lathe work, it has to "flow" and be "smooth". This is shown in my interests. Specifially, I like Arts & Crafts period work (I love the precision). Then, I like the lathe work where it flows. It allows me to use both the "precise" side of my brain (Furniture) and the "artsy" part of my brain in watching my creation evolve in front of my eyes.

I dont know if that makes any sense, but with the lathe work, I dont have to be as "precise" as I do with furniture building and it is a refreshing change. However, when I feel the need to "build" and not "discover", I build furniture (or as I am starting to do, segmented bowls). I really dont care if other people like the work I do as long as I like it as I am not doing it for them, I am doing it for me.

Either way, I love wood. It is too much fun (like computers).

Rob

I think this is a large part of the answer. It works for both the 'true' artist and for the hobbyist. Both make what they want to make. The artist may be more of a pioneer and the hobbyist a follower or copier. The full time turner probably doesn't have time to experiment with the more esoteric design variations. He needs production because the more he turns out, the more he earns.

I'd like you to like my work but if you don't, and it satisfies me, that is OK too.

Harry

Yeah, cool word. "Artist" can be anything but "craftsman" has to be good. TomNie

Plus, your stock won't warp or twist as you turn it, and you don't have to worry as much about end grain because there isn't any :-)

This is somewhat where my opinion stands. To me, the lathe is just another tool in my shop; next to the bandsaw and table saw in fact, across from the jointer and drill press. I have absolutely no desire to take pride in the fact that I can take a huge chunk of greed tree trunk and turn it into a priceless bowl-shaped piece of wood. Yes, I've done it, but it's a technique I find little use for in my work.

Segmented turnings let you create a starting blank that's designed for your desired result. It won't warp, hardly changes shape at all, and is a lot easier (for me at least) to turn. As for pride, heck, anyone can take ONE piece of wood and make a bowl from it, but how many can take 157 pieces of wood and make a bowl from it? From an achievement point of view, I think more effort has to go into a segmented bowl to get comparable results to a single-piece bowl. It's easy to show the grain in a one-piece bowl, but it's HARD to show off birds-eye maple in a segmented turning! It takes a lot of time and effort to get each piece just right to get the desired effect.

And if you just want a bowl, heck, all the grain's pretty much going in the right direction anyway.

Did I mention I don't like turning end grain? ;-)

References:

Oh Aye! Right shower they two.

Hunkered doon on baith legs.

Here's a wee statue:

...........................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now _there's_ a public school science teacher's nightmare sentence!

Rob wrote: my brain in watching my creation evolve in front of my eyes.

And Chuck wrote: Now _there's_ a public school science teacher's nightmare sentence! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Nice catch, Chuck. In a few words, Rob has melted away the barrier between evolution and creationism.

Charlie... like my dad used to say, "there's an ass for every seat" what we perceive as normal may be boring or no challenge to others.. like resawing a perfectly good slab of hardwood to book match a table top when the slab is all ready big enough for a table top.. different things appeal to different folks, etc... Besides, most things are only kinky the first time.. *g*

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing