patterns

I never asked for compensation.

Gwen, I know what you mean about almost identical patterns (and definitely identical stitches) turning up again and again. I have made up knitted patterns for things from time to time over the years since I taught myself to knit. One pattern I made up was for a pair of slippers, and this is the only pattern I have ever used for my slippers.... but I have seen other people's slippers at craft shows/sales that look identical to mine. I don't worry about it because I know where I got mine from... my own head.

I have also seen a few patterns on websites of items that I had knitted from a book years ago, and the website owner is claiming the pattern as her own. I have taken my book(s) out and gone over line for line of the pattern comparing it to the one on the website, and it is *exactly* (word for word) the same pattern that is in my book that was published many years ago with a different person's name as the creator of the pattern. The thing that does annoy me a lot about this is that the owner of the website who claims the pattern as her own, is stating in the copyright clause that no one is to sell what they make from "her" pattern as it is copyrighted... while the owner of the pattern in the old book I have has no stipulations on her copyright saying that no one is allowed to sell what they make from her pattern, or even share the pattern with others.

-- Anyway, your knitted lacy cape sounds lovely! Do you have pictures up anywhere?

Peace! Gem

Sorry,Gemini, no pictures - but when i get my new computer I will be able to send pictures and I might do one then God Bless Gwen

I look forward to it! :o)

Peace! Gemini

It's not a pattern that's similar in concept or execution. Those happen all the time. It's the photographs used without permission and with noreen's copyright on them, when they don't belong to her, or patterns that are word-for-word identical with those that belong to others.

Similar designs happen all the time, and are usually mediated very graciously. I do believe that if Noreen would own up and apologize, it would go a long way.

Mirjam, Gwendoline, Gemini et al, There is a difference between having similar ideas, and expressing those ideas using THE EXACT SAME WORDS AND PHOTOGRAPHS AS A PUBLISHED SOURCE.

Gemini, you say you've seen patterns on a website word for word as in a book with the web designer's own name and copyright on it? Well, guess what. That's what Noreen has done. To me, to Sarah, to a yarn company, to a craft book, and to others I am still looking for. Her digital photographs are mostly stolen and heavily altered in photoshop or a similar program to make them less obvious. Many of her other pattern photographs were scanned from printed sources (with all of the faces cut off to make them harder to recognize). Not photographs, printed books and pamphlets. There are obvious signs to look for, and they are all there. This is not an example of copyright going too far, but a very clear case of infringement.

When I asked for a copy of the pattern Noreen was selling using my photograph, she sent me a pattern that was obviously an edited version of my published design. I have also found out that she further edited the file before sending it to me in an attempt to make it look less like my work. I have seen another pattern where she did not even bother to edit the text from the original source. Once or twice could be a coincidence or an error. As many times as we've discovered points very clearly to intellectual property theft.

So she's trying to be rewarded for OTHER PEOPLE coming up with designs, writing them down, photographing them. It is possible that some of her patterns are, in fact, original. But many are not. I'm sorry that someone you clearly consider to be a friend has betrayed your trust. But I must say there's no way that I can "work things out" with Noreen until she comes clean about her deceptions, and I would not expect Sarah to, either. Money isn't the issue, it's all about taking credit for someone else's work.

Best wishes, Emma

I must tell you that during the Dolls festival , our works were photographed Constanatly ,, from proffessionals who had a most elaborate camera, to many chidren who took photos on their cellulars. From all these people only 2 asked for permission , and 1 of them even asked me to sign a paper, that i agreed becuase she said she intended to use the pictures in lectures. i am sure next year many a handcraft teacher will teach copies of our ideas ,, do i mind ? not really , because my usual art is hard to copy ,, [ i have seen people trying it !!! this work was a humuristic work , and if it will make people happy ,, so be it !!!! As far as i heard from Noreen it was somebody else , who gave her this photos and due to the times she went through, she didn`t check his credentials ,,, mirjam

Copyright, however, is a legal matter. There are appropriate methods for dealing with infringement; none of those you claim to have pursued are among them.

Mirjam, if you are interested in a kind of licensing that would let you retain an artist's rights while letting other people benefit from your contributions, you might want to look at

Nothing in textiles yet, as far as I know, but your work would make a good beginning.

I have sent Noreen a cease-and-desist letter. That she continues making claims online that the stolen patterns are her own, well, I have a right to refute those claims in the same forum.

The legal system is concerned with getting money out of people. I don't want money. What compensation I want is an admission of an error in judgement, and an apology.

I am seeking further sources so that I may notify the owners of those copyrights about the infringement. Again, that is perfectly appropriate.

I have tried to stay out of the entire online fracas. I did not wish to become part of this mess. But when people start to suggest that Sarah and I are in the wrong and Noreen is completely innocent, I am entitled to post to defend my reputation, am I not?

As far as rights go, it would be best to consult your own attorney, not Usenet.

Oh, come now, you don't seriously believe that ending a post with a rhetorical question is equivalent to asking the newsgroup for legal advice.

You might well benefit from legal advice.

How do you know she hasn't already?

This has carried on quite long enough. We know your story and I would appreciate it if you would leave it at that or take it to private mail. I'm past the point of caring about it.

Shelagh

You can order replacement delete keys if yours is broken, Shillelagh.

Seriously, first she got slammed because she wouldn't speak up for herself, now she's getting slammed because she IS speaking up for herself. Nobody's forcing a Clockwork Orange eyelid machine on you; take some responsibility for what you read your own self.

The latest post struck me as profoundly unwise. Not my problem, of course, so I withdraw the suggestion.

Another rhetorical question, then. Do you think this likely to benefit anyone's reputation, or the business interests of anyone who expects to sell her own knitting books or patterns? I find it offputting.