vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.compuppies (Dr. Sooz) :
]
i knew you'd love that pattern!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.compuppies (Dr. Sooz) :
]Which one? ]BTW, Yahoo is SUCKING LOUDLY, Marisa's right. I'm having a lot of trouble ]uploading pics -- one just won't. It's taking-like-an HOUR! So one of the ]aforementioned pics isn't there (still).
well, there was only one new one. red and black "wheels". i don't have the patience for those, but i knew you did, after seeing the one you were wearing the day i was there.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
I did but the spam mail I got afterwards was and still is unbelievable. Infact I had to filter Yahoo out altogether. Shirley
In article , Jalynne writes
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.compuppies (Dr. Sooz) :
]And did you know those are two ]different patterns? (It's hard to tell unless you see them together, side by ]side)
no, i didn't, but it figures. i still can't get RAW to come out properly!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
Bummer...i've never had a problem...that just stinks. Isn't it great that Sooz doesn't mind sharing, though?
I figured you probably did, but I thought it needed saying anyway with BABE coming up.
Tina
Yep, for sure. My offer to come live with her was made in total jest. (she knows I know and I know she knows that I know and now you know I know shes knows I know) Unless we did that RCB community that we talked/dreamed about recently I couldnt impose on her *or anyone else* for more than a few hours... unless they let me be part of the household, and all that it entails. I do windows. :-) So.. Sooz, should I wait till Meg is a little older before I move in? :-) Diana
I knew you knew I knew...probably.. but also I recognize the gentle kindness you showed to Sooz's needs, and am glad I brought the subject up so you could give caution to others. Boy.. I sure can sound pompous when I want, cant I? LOL Diana
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:49:30 -0400, Christina Peterson wrote (in message ):
Sooz, are you like me, weighing everything by what it will cost in pain? Right now, the big thing going on is DD's Halloween Show, in which I volunteed to be stage manager last year. They want me to do it again, but last year's show cost me two weeks in bed. But the show was so much better than previous years, when there was no supervision backstage and the kids got mixed up.
Today's pain debt should be low: all we did is go out to dinner locally. Tomorrow will be a lot higher: Have to replace yet another pair of DD's glasses (she's paying, but I still have to drive to Costco), drop off my donation pieces for the auction. (You guys have seen them all), and supervise/help DD for her weekend homework of making a cell out of Jello. God help me - I thought this cell building exercise went out about 30 years ago!
Kathy N-V
I think you've hit the key here. The only way a community would work is if each person took responsibility for his or her own actions and reactions, being willing to do the work necessary to make things function properly. However, one person may not have the resources available to them to work out their own hang ups and insecurities, and may require help. I have no problems with people in a community relying on others in that community, because each person has his or her own strengths and weaknesses. It's only when pooling these that community can function. It's a symbiotic relationship, where each person has something to contribute. It creates an accountability when there are people who are always there "in your business." In a true community, such as I have experienced on a small scale in my Mennonite church, the members of that community are interdependent, but in a healthy way, helping each other from our individual surplusses, whether it be money, skill, or a listening ear. Of course, there is always the danger of becoming dysfunctional...that's simply because we're humans, imperfect in every way. This is not to say community cannot be attained, but a wonderful goal to work toward. DH and I are attempting to teach this concept of community to our DD, because we want her to grow up to be a giving, compassionate person. We believe that through the giving of our selves in a purely selfless way, and working toward peaceful, mature relationships with others, we can effect a change, albeit small, in our little corner of the world. But it has to start somewhere, doesn't it?
My whole idea of the retreat that I want to build someday is based on these ideas of community.
I have had the privilege of being accepted into a Mennonite community in Alberta, between Red Deer and Edmonton. Near Camrose.
This was an especially nice group. I never felt "less than" for not being of their faith. Even without really being a part of their community, Ben and Betty Siemens recognized a basic need or lack of completion in us, and they offered us a house to stay in and 40 acres to farm. Food, housing, nurturing and skills (for us to borrow AND to learn) were all available to us.
They used machines and phones, but no radio,etc. They are some of the people I've admired most. And as I've gotten older, my admiration just increases.
Tina
Sounds like Old Order. I've not had the chance to meet any Old Order relatives. DH and I are Mennonite Brethren (adopted...we both grew up Baptist, but that's another story)...pretty modern, obviously, if we're on the internet...LOL. But the idea of community is all the same. I've never felt so much at home with people in all my life as with these people. We choose not to shove our beliefs down each other's throats...and treat everyone as equals whether we agree with them or not. It's the best way to live, I think.
Absolutely. But the help would be to *work on the problems*... and I know too many people who regard 'getting help' as seeking people willing to do the things they aren't doing themselves, so they can go on avoiding the problems... forever.
That works *against* both the people who exhaust their own resources sparing others, and against those who are spared ... and never grow.
Deirdre (the voice of experience, here)
We share a dream, then. But mine says that self-interest *includes* care for others, because we are all 'environment' to each other, and the health of a single organism depends on the health of its environment.
And one-sided self-sacrifice ... to the point where we become unhealthy as a consequence ... contributes to the depletion and eventual collapse of that environment. Nobody gains. Everyone loses.
*Joining the team* is what I am after, not selflessness. The Bucky Fuller statement comes to mind: "There are no passengers on Spaceship Earth. We are all crew."Deirdre
Not quite Old Order. They use tractors, not horses. And so on. It's the media stuff they avoid. The marketing that sets up inwarranted wants and expectations, and the the peddling of immediate gratification and selfish thrill/pleasure seeking.
They were not considered Old Order when we knew them. And maybe they have evolved a little since then too.
Tina
dysfunctional...that's
individuals,
Ah, ok...I'll have to figure out which branch they are on the Mennonite tree. Thanks!
Here i have to disagree. In my own experience, it's when I give selflessly that I am the most fulfilled. I have no expectations of others at that point, and in one way or another, it comes back to me in ways I never imagined, and usually tenfold of what I gave to begin with.
I think you have misunderstood. Or maybe I have.
What I hear Deirdre saying is that it is in the interest of the individual to contribute to their community.
I also hear her using the term self interest, instead of selfish.
And to be literally "self-less", with loss of individual identity, is like being without a soul or center. I think when you speak of "selfless", you are referring to giving out of a kind of unconditional love. Where you love the individual, but not necessarily the behaviour, but also don't give frivolously.
Tina
I feel a need to clarify...for me, selfless doesn't mean loss of individual identity. It's got more to do with motivation than identity. As I said in a previous post, it's an attitude of not expecting anything in return, of not thinking of one's own self primarily, but putting others first. I know that a lot of people won't agree that this is healthy, and that I'm just looking to make myself into a door mat. It is entirely possible that this could happen, because there are a whole lot of people looking to take advantage of others. That doesn't really matter to me. If i feel led to give, I give. What the other person's response is, is their choice and their responsibility.
I suppose one could use the word "altruistic" as well so as to avoid confusion. I just didn't want you thinking that I didn't have a good grasp of my "individual identity", because, although I do have some issues to work through still, I'm pretty comfortable with who I am and have come a very long and painful way to get to this point in my life.
I'm honestly not trying to attack anyone...just wanting to have an intelligent conversation, which so rarely happens with a 6 year old. I feel my brain atrophying!
I would love to live in the kind of community where I was able to contribute to the whole, but still be left to my own territorial solitude most of the time. Often I find that people think there's something "wrong" with me because I love space and solitude, or they misunderstand my love for friends and socializing as a desire to avoid solitude, rather than as an enjoyable adjunct to my much-desired solitude.
To the best of my memory I have never felt lonely. I don't know what "lonely" or "bored" feel like.
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