Re: OT: STORY - Flag Day and Independence Day

Yes, it's amazing how many people are willing to be unconscionably rude only in the most genteel of terms. Point out what they *really* just said, and they'll either shy away, or insist "but that's DIFFERENT!" Good tactic, Sooz!

Celine

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Arondelle :

]There are people who moan about how the USA is losing it's place as the ]leader of scientific learning and technological advancement, and then ]think it's perfectly reasonable to teach Creationism (excuse me, ]Intelligent Design) as science

we've been discussing this off and on in another group. i don't understand how kids educated this way make it in college science classes at all . . .

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

The thing about Oakland is that nobody even seems to notice that others are ethnically different. I never notice that someone else is black or Asian or Latino, and I never feel "white". It's more than diversity, it's intermingling. Like Berkeley, but without the oddball reputation/reality.

Tina

Well, they go to Christian universities which also teach Creationism/Intelligent Design as scientific fact. :-P

Arondelle

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Arondelle :

]Well, they go to Christian universities which also teach Creationism/Intelligent Design as scientific fact. :-P

oh. i guess so. DUH! sorry about that. i was just imagining some poor kid, having been taught that way, sitting in a Biology class at any of the UC or CSUC campuses and wondering what the hell happened.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

"Christian" universities? You'd sure never get away with that at a Jesuit College (among the oldest universities you'll find). Let's rephrase that as "narrow-minded Christian sect university".

T>

Creationism/Intelligent Design as scientific fact. :-P

Jesuits are Christians? I thought they were Catholic.

Just kidding. :o)

Gregor Mendel, the founder of genetic science, was a priest. Johannes Kepler, who calculated the Laws of Motion which describe the motion of the planets around the Sun, was also a cleric.

A great deal of what we think of as modern science flowed out of European monasteries. Much ancient knowledge would have been lost forever during the Dark Ages if not for Christian monks scribing and copying down as much of it as they could find.

One wonders why those "narrow-minded Christian sects" would be willing to toss out a thousand years of clerical scholarship.

Arondelle };->

Yeah, I can't fault Mattel for using the same body mold for all Barbies, after spending all those years promoting the "interchangeable clothing" idea.

While not a "Barbie collector" per se, I do have a *few* of them. It started with the Star Trek Barbie & Ken; then I had to get the Addams Family version; and the (very pagan!) Sun and Moon Goddess Barbies. But I only buy them if *I* want them for what they are, not for their collectible value.

Celine

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Arondelle :

]One wonders why those "narrow-minded Christian sects" would be willing ]to toss out a thousand years of clerical scholarship.

rebellion against the RC church?

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

I would just like to point out (probably needlessly) that just because person A claims the Christian faith, does not mean that they think the same way as person B who also claims it.

Case-in-point- The "Christian" group down south somewhere (the exact local escapes me right now) who do the snake handling and poison drinking, do Not share the same ideas as other Christians I know.

I bring that example up because it was on t.v. last night. I think they are down right crazy. The snake is poisonous for a reason! And they also believe in speaking in tongues. Most Christians do not. But I won't get into that right now.

It just seems to me that a few posts have been lumping all Christianity into one , and that simply isn't the case. As I'm quite sure that other religions aren't "one lump".

I guess what it boils down to is believe in what works for you, while respecting others. (I know that there are groups out there that claim their way is the only way and that's what this pretty much started over) In the end we'll eventually find out who was right. Who the "Supreme Being" really is.

Rachel T. Damn right I'm good in bed. I can sleep for days. ;)

Almost every "white" person you know probably does have indian blood, and also black blood. If they weren't raised with a connection to indian and black communities, it would be hard for them to claim a kinship with them, hence they aren't "mixed".

Hey now, the Wanabi are on the road to tribal recognition! Of course, once they have sovereignty, they will shun casinos because they "aren't traditional". ;)

My friend Fiona O'Grady is the first member of her family to be born in the US... her parents moved here from Ireland when she was in utero. My friends and family think that's SO exotic! LOL perspective is everything.

You wanna know something depressing? When the Census was compiled, all the multiple-choice people got recategorized into whichever category was "statistically correct", whatever that means. So although we were able to mark more than one box, that data did not get compiled into usable information.

I lived in Oakland for a couple of years, and I loved it. If I had to live in a city other than Portland, I'd choose Oakland.

LOL Sooz you're so bad! I love it!

Indeed. Lumping all Pagans together usually equals an attempt to herd cats, but, there *are* some folks who continue to try, in spite of repeated warnings not to.

Not to put too fine a point on it, I don't think that all Christians are narrow-minded -- in fact, I think that *most* Christians are open-minded. Many Christians simply don't give a hoot what anyone else believes, and are willing to live and let live.

However, it's the few narrow-minded ones who have the multi-million dollar broadcast operations and the ear of politicos in the highest eschelons of government. And, the open-minded say nothing because the rants of these narrow-minded TV preachers are not aimed at them. Anyway, who is it hurting? A few iconoclastic nut-cases: the "Others."

Sorry about the appearance of Christian-bashing. Wouldn't want to reinforce Pat Robertson's illusion of Christian persecution in the USA. :-p

Arondelle

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 0:14:18 -0400, Kalera Stratton wrote (in message ):

It really depends. I'm a child of immigrants, and I can be quite sure that there are no Native American or African American ancestors, at least as far as recorded history is concerned. Where I live, a huge percentage of people are immigrants or first generation Americans, and you just don't hear people claiming Native American ancestry. (I didn't use Indian on purpose. I know lots of people from India, and they are quite vocal about proclaiming their Indian ancestry)

OTOH, you never know. Maybe a group of Native Americans or African folks took a side trip to Bavaria in the distant past. Kinda doubt it, though.

Kathy N-V

Wanna get *really* outraged?

Robertson is using his multi-million dollar, tax-exempt TV broadcasting network to lobby Washington into backing off its demands that Charles Taylor (Liberia's current dictator) leave power.

Why? Because Robertson owns a gold mining interest in Liberia, and he's made some kind of deal with Taylor for special favors. If Taylor is forced out, Robertson's gold mine goes into the potty.

CBN and The 700 Club make tons of money in profitable enterprises (books, vitamin supplements, investments, etc.), and I'd be very surprised if they don't try to shelter every cent behind their tax-exempt status. And, Operation Blessing was the first in line with their hand out when Bush's "Office of Faith-based Initiatives" started handing out grants.

So, not only do I have to worry about Robertson and his cronies convincing the government to enact laws enshrining Christianity as the official religion of the USA and otherwise raping the First Amendment, but I also have to watch the government give the Religious Right my tax money to do it.

Arondelle