Needlepoint Fabric

Nonsense. My dh rarely if ever misses, and neither did my son when he was growing up. Teach them to aim - or make THEM clean the bathrooms.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans

This assumes that the cleaner can read English. I've had several who were nearly illiterate (or may be able to read their native language, but not English) -- that's why they were cleaning houses instead of working in offices or fast food (where they would have to be able to read the computer screen with the order info). Giving them a note, they would look for one word they know and assume the rest of the sentence. "Cupboard. Oh, she wants me to rearrange the cupboards!" Much more reliable to say to them, slowly and clearly, "do NOT do this", so we're not dealing with their limited ability to read.

Even so, the solution seems to be getting myself healthy enough to stand over them for the full four hours to make darn sure that they don't do what they were told to DON'T, and do do what they were told I wanted done, because the minute I leave them alone in a room is when the problem starts.

Absolutely. I've had a few who clearly grew up with dirt floors and dried-mud walls, who don't understand that applying water to linoleum and painted drywall does not cause the floor/wall to disintegrate. No, honey, I did not tell you to sweep the floor, I told you to mop it with water to get that big brown spot off the white linoleum, that won't come up with just sweeping. And she looks at you like you've lost your mind, wanting her to put water on the floor.

And those who need glasses, but will not wear them in public for issues of vanity, and therefore miss all sorts of things that need cleaning. But they look real cute taking the bus home afterward, so they'll get a date, because their culture is that women are nothing unless they are married.

Please, give me someone who was raised in a culture where perfectionism is valued, and in a real house with real floors and real walls! Unfortunately, around here, most of our immigrants come from Third World places where they didn't have real floors and real walls, not from Europe, so they weren't raised to spend a lot of time cleaning floors and walls, and spider webs aren't something you worry about, either: it will catch flying insects, so it's a good thing to have lots of them.

Absolutely. Someone who wants to sit and watch TV while being paid to clean is only going to be made a good worker by one attitude: a slavedriver with a whip. Politely asking "would you pretty please clean the kitchen" gets you nowhere. The only thing she really wants from me is for me to leave the house for four hours and come back when it's time to pay her, so that I won't be there to know that she didn't do any actual cleaning. I've had them get quite sullen when they realize that I have no intention of leaving the house so that they can watch my cable TV.

Someone in another group mentioned that she had, in desperation, taken a cleaning job, and the gal who was training her did in fact teach her that you just spray some PineSol around so the place smells clean, and then you don't need to do much more. That had nothing to do with the attitude of the person paying them to clean, and everything to do with the attitude of the lazy person doing the cleaning.

If you work in an office or a store, there's always someone around to know whether you're working or not, but if you hire out as a cleaning lady, most of the time you will be alone in the house while the lady of the house is at her job, so there's no one to know how much you are goofing off. And then you run into someone like me, who works from home, and hears it when you turn on the TV in the living room when you're supposed to be cleaning in the kitchen.

And don't get me started on the one who spotted some shopping bags that I hadn't unpacked yet, rummaged through them, and started asking "can I have this?" on things I'd just bought for myself. Again, she didn't want to do what she'd been told to do, so she found something "more fun" to do. She had no intention of putting away what was in the shopping bags, just wanted to see what I'd bought and try to mooch something in addition to her paycheck. (She was offended when I told her she could have it if she paid me the amount the receipt in the bag showed that I had paid; she's a poor cleaning lady and I'm a Rich American, so I should just give it to her free, in addition to her pay, because Rich Americans can afford to give things away. She argued with me that poor disabled people don't hire cleaning ladies; if I had hired her, that proved I was rich.)

In ten years of cleaning houses, I rarely (except for Saturday changeovers, which was a different story) worked alone in a house. I much more often was asked to work with the homeowner or to work around her than left to my own devices. I did sometimes go out in teams with other women who would turn on the television first thing when they got to the house to create background noise. It's not something I understand, but a lot of people seem to have the TV on all the time.

Anyway, have you tried hiring someone from here instead of an immigrant? It'll cost you more, but you might have better luck. My sister charges some outrageous amount, hoping to lose customers, but no matter how much she raises her rates, she still has more work than she can handle.

Elizabeth

I know that I wouldn't be even remotely interested in having someone put things away for me and/or rearrange my cupboards. I need to know where everything is and having someone put it in what I deem the wrong place would drive me bonkers. One of the cleaning people I hired some years ago thought she was doing me a very big favor when I was a bit under the weather and spent extra time on her own emptying the dryer, folding all the things and putting them away. I spent the better part of the afternoon when she left refolding everything and moving it to where I personally wanted it. I gushed and thanked her for her help and made it very clear I didn't want or need that kind of service in the future. That way when I did want something extra I didn't feel guilty about asking and she rarely refused me. Especially since if it wasn't something that was in the normal routine I offered to work with her side by side.

If you really want someone to put things away for you I think need to tell the agency up front and then you should pull up a chair and tell them exactly where to put things. Otherwise you need to accept their version of neat. Remember, these are people who may not have had a closed cupboard at home and just stuck their stuff on shelves to keep it off the floor.

Lucille

The immigrants were sent by the agencies. I wouldn't hire one directly because I don't want to be responsible for checking their immigration documents.

Americans mostly fell into two camps: scutwork is beneath me, or too flaky to show up without me calling the night before to remind them "tomorrow is Tuesday".

The last one was US-born of Mexican parents; she went to US schools and spoke good English, but could barely read. Her primary focus in life was getting married, and she was very disappointed that I didn't have any sons or brothers to introduce her to. Once she realized that working for me had no such social fringe benefits, she slacked off. No need to impress me with her domestic abilities, I wasn't going to marry her.

Unfortunately, I know only one person in town who uses a hired cleaner, and her gal speaks only Spanish, which would be fine if my only instruction was "clean house", but I need to give detailed instructions about tasks I can't do, like putting things away in specific spots where I can find them, and some of those instructions exceed the calibre of my Spanish. Everyone else I've asked for a referral has sighed "if you find a good one, let me know", because they've given up on finding anyone who actually cleans. (One gal did know of someone who actually cleans. Unfortunately, she also cleaned all the valuables into her pocket, at which point my friend decided it was better to clean her mom's house herself.)

Have you checked the want-ads? Lots of times people who are willing to clean will advertise that fact. It means you have to check their references carefully, but we've actually had reasonable luck with hiring people to do things by checking the ads.

Elizabeth

The problem is that when I point them toward the Tupperware cupboard and tell them to please put "all the plastic stuff" in there, none of it gets in the cupboard. It's easier for them to dump it all in boxes and bags for me to put away later. That's not "their version of neat", that's too lazy to follow clear and precise instructions. It's not even "sticking it on shelves to keep it off the floor", because the boxes and bags are left on the floor.

I can describe to them perfectly and precisely what I want them to do, and as soon as I go lie down, they ignore the instructions and take shortcuts. Or simply go on to doing something they consider more fun, which I haven't asked them to do.

If I'm going to exhaust myself being out of bed standing over them for 4 hours, I might just as well exhaust myself doing the cleaning myself, the right way, and save the $60-$80. ($120+ if I'm using an agency) The problem isn't that I'm trying to get things done on the cheap, but that I'm paying full price for work that doesn't get done because I'm not standing over them cracking the whip every second.

I'd have no problem paying $15-20/hour to get the work done efficiently. I have a big problem with someone who apparently takes four freaking hours to unload/load the dishwasher and I can't see that she's done anything else in that four hours. And especially when I open the dishwasher to put in the last few things to fill it up and have to reload the whole thing myself because she cannot retain for three days since her last visit the simple instruction that the plates go in the narrow spaces, because if you put them in the wide spaces (i.e., sideways), they move around too much and may break. Either she was non-educable retarded or this was just a clever plot to get me to do half the work myself in repeatedly showing her "THIS is how to load the dishwasher" by putting things in myself; I think it was the latter.

Same thing with my laundry. I'm not quibbling about how she folds it; doesn't really matter to me if it's folded in quarters or thirds or origami'd. I quibble with the fact that it was left all over the dining room. The place looked a lot neater the way I had it, with the clean laundry confined in a basket, instead of all over the table, on the chairs, on the piano, on the sideboard.... And she didn't sort it when she was folding, so it wasn't a simple matter of me picking up the stack of T-shirts to put in the drawer; first, I had to go through a dozen stacks to find all the T-shirts, which took more time than I was able to spend upright without getting dizzy.

There's a reason they say "if you want it done right, do it yourself." The hired help around here is basically useless.

That's where I'm getting my people since I gave up on the agencies: they advertise either in the newspaper or on Craigs List that they're looking for cleaning jobs. (Well, other than the one I hired from the motel I was staying at. She did an excellent job on my motel room; did a crappy job on my house.)

I have not had a single one live up to their gushing references. I swear they're all getting their best friend to lie for them.

Even the one I hired from the motel, who had been working there for quite a while, so obviously met expectations, didn't live up to what I'd seen with my own eyes; Mr. MotelOwner was her boss, but I was just a woman. A woman is not the boss, a woman is your friend. She'd work when Brian told her to do something, but when it was me giving her an order, she'd argue. Brian had a job and couldn't always be here to supervise my cleaning lady to make sure that she worked for the Boss Man.

I would much rather deal with word-of-mouth referrals, but as I said, everyone I've asked has just sighed "if you find a good one, let me know". I could get a good cleaner full-time work if only I could find a good cleaner worth referring to other people who are looking.

I pay $25/hour and I suspect the cost of living is higher where you are.

Elizabeth

I have told the latest agency one several times..."do't bother with the kitchen counters, we wipe them every day anyway, I cook A LOT" However, the agency told her to, so she insists on wiping the counters and cleaning inside the microwave, which is also done quite frequently. Meanwhile, the white painted doors have dirty marks on them just below the doorknobs, and the kitchen floor is only very lightly mopped. AND, I just discovered she has also thrown out the microwave oven instructions. Now, that used to live underneath said appliance, as dh forgets how to reset the clock when we have a power cut. I was looking for it this evening for something and, guess what? It is not there. As she also threw out the manual for my sewing machine, I can only assume that she treats all instructions (including mine) with contempt.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

If they tell me they charge $15-20, I'm not offering them $25 unless they prove they're worth it. I haven't had anyone tell me they're charging more than $20. I pay what they tell me is the going rate.

It may be. But we also have a lot of illegal immigrants willing to work for next to nothing, which keeps wages down.

Apparently illegal immigrants have little or no impact on wages:

If you are the workgiver she should do your request ,

Are You sure she didn`t misplace it ?

---------------- Living with a house where a lot papers are used for writing etc,,, i aked my cleaning lady to pile all papers in the room she cleans in one neat pile ,, this way nothing gets thrown out by `mistake` , but she can clean every counter table etc,,, This of course makes me than sit down and look through those piles ,,, mirjam

mirjam

Of course, that's one study. And it makes some good points. However, tell that to the meat packers. And it has made a big impact, article aside, on construction wages in some areas of the country.

I also disagree that immigrants do jobs that legal citizens won't do, and the article did allude to high-school dropouts having a tougher time making ends meet or getting jobs. Perhaps these are the people that can no longer compete.

Dianne

I know from my own family experience that immigrants do the jobs that citizens won't do. My sister had a terrible time finding workers for her summer cleaning business. In fact, the Cape Cod economy in general has problems. Used to be kids in college would flock there for summer work, but now they don't or they just want to play. So my sister gets her workers through a legal academic exchange program that brings in students from Europe for the summer. She pays them well and makes rental housing available to them, so it wasn't wages or housing - American students just don't work in the summers the way they used to, at least not the ones who can afford to be mobile. And the ones who can't afford to be mobile aren't going to the Cape.

Elizabeth

As A rule Ilegal imigrants DO make it harder for local woirkers to find work , because they have no choice but get lower wages , mirjam

On 1/26/08 3:31 PM, in article KNudnbtbhbJBBQbanZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, "Lucille" wrote: SNIP

Lucille (and Karen obviously), this sounds like the best solution. Even here in NH, there are personal organizers. They might be willing to hook you up with someone that will do just what you are looking for. Someone to put all your stuff exactly where and how you want it. I suspect Karen has the vision of what she wants, just not the wherewithal to do it. (then again, neither do I some days)

Cheryl (off to make sure DS doesn't starve when he gets home from finals)