OT: Driving habits and increased gas prices.

Lucille

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Fair enough; thanks for explaining and joining in the discussion. Dianne estimates that gas needs to be over $4 per gallon before people start looking at cost as a significant factor. Could you estimate how much gas would have to be, when considerations of how much it costs to travel become as important to you as "enjoying the journey"?

-- Jim Cripwell. A volante tribe of bards on earth are found,/ who, while the flattering zephyrs round them play,/ on "coignes of vantage" build their nests of clay;/ how quickly from that aery hold unbound,/ dust for oblivion!/ To the solid ground/ of nature trusts the mind that builds for aye. Wordsworth.

Well, I agree that a large vehicle is not really always necessary and I drive a small 2-door hatchback here are a few other considerations. With my car, in order to properly secure baby seats the strap to hold the back of seat secure against the back of the car seat goes to the back of the hatch, meaning anything that gets stowed in the hatch has to fit under and around the straps. I've only done it for one weekend with one car seat, I'm sure it would be more inconvenient with more car seats and the corresponding increase of gear needed. Especially for longer trips. For example, when my brother and I were in car seats as small children, we lived in northern B.C. and both sets of grandparents lived in Saskatchewan, meaning we would take at least one major trip for an extended period of time a year. I'm not sure that I could fit two adults, two children in car seats and all the stuff needed for a two week stay with someone that does not come equip with everything needed for small children. Though, the other possibility is what some friends of ours did and rent a vehicle for these extended trips and own a smaller vehicle for regular use.

Secondly, seniors and large vehicles. While I agree with Sheena that they are not 'safer' for seniors to drive. I do know that a lot of seniors I know that drive larger vehicles do so because it is easier for them to get in and out of the vehicles. Not to mention, easier to sit in for extended periods of time. My father at 60 has said this for a couple of years already. This could be something for car manufacturers to look into to see if they could make cars easier to get in and out of. I know that certain cars are definitely easier to sit in.

Rachel

And Lucille responded:>

Because I don't know of anyone who is changing their driving habits, just complaining about the high cost. I still see youth driving around town because there's "nothing else to do". I'm not hearing anyone saying, "We're not shopping this week end in order to save gas."

There will be shortages in the U.S., and yet I'm not seeing anyone staying home. As I have sat here today, all my neighbors have been in/out with their cars. My street is as busy as ever.

So, no. I don't think most people are "getting it" to the point of making significant changes.

Dianne

I live in a place with lots of senior citizens who are very concerned with the gas crisis and are speaking of ways to change their habits. And my friend has a daughter with young kids living in this town and she has mentioned it. And our school board is considering asking parent's to drive their kids to school instead of putting them on a gas guzzling school bus. It's not a lot, but it's a beginning.

Lucille

Lucille

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Young families should have the least car that will do the job. I would think a small car for the many trips around town would be great combined with the idea of renting for the longer trips. Still effect a saving too.

The seniors to whom I am referring are not so much driving vans for the ease or comfort but because the daughter feels, with her fathers poor driving capabilities now, when an inevitable accident occurs, her parents will be safer, less likely to be killed. Now they may be more likely to kill others, but that does not seem a concern. Scary. I see seniors who can hardly move those vans round a parking lot, just for two people, all that gas ?

And are you convinced that *your* little corner of the world is any more representative?

In the U.S. there is often a lot of grumbling, but not much in the way of "effort" to effect change. I would expect many of the older Americans to be wiser. We've been through a previous gas crises.

Also, instead of driving your kids to school, maybe they could walk? I know not all can walk . . . but a lot can and don't. I have piano students who could walk to their lessons but their parents drive them the four or five blocks.

Dianne

Did I say I was convinced or my area represented everyone? I don't think so.

I repeat--I can't and won't speak for all Americans and I just don't know what you expect people to do. Not everyone can ride a bike to the grocery and not everyone can change their work week and most importantly--not everyone is apathetic. I see some people working for change and you see no people working for change.

If you have any good ideas for how we can help, why not post them somewhere. I for one will certainly try to adopt a good idea if I can and I believe there are lots of Americans who feel the way I do.

Lucille

I think change will come unless gas prices dip. The worry here is also what oil price per barrell is going to do to winter heating - not an elective option.

Speaking solely for myself, I can't cut back much more than I already had when gas broke the two dollar mark. I already consolidate all my errands into a single run in a specific order to minimize mileage. If I had room to store the perishables for longer periods of time, I could cut back on the frequency of my errand runs (currently once a week), but not only do I not have room in my refrigerator for 2 weeks or more worth of milk, eggs, cheese, fruits, etc., I also don't have space or money for a second refrigerator or chest freezer. (although in the winter we did take advantage of cold temperatures and stored some of these items in Rubbermaid boxes outside on the back step) I don't run the AC on the car unless it's omigod hot and humid. I take public transportation to get to and from work every day, and I walk from the train station to my office rather than ride a bus. Wait, I take that back. I drove one day because I'd missed the regular train and I knew that the bosses needed me to be in on time that day for a large project we were working on, so I couldn't wait for the next run and be an hour late to work.

A tank of gas (approximately 9 gallons) will typically last me 3-4 weeks. My normal weekly runs generally clock in at a bit under 100 miles total. (My mother, on the other hand, goes through a tank every

2-3 days in her job as a traveling infusion therapy nurse, I'm so very glad I don't have her job or her bills!)

Now that it will cost me about $30 to fill my tank, I have the choice of biting the bullet at the same frequency and taking a big chunk out of my budget for that particular week, or topping off a little more frequently but putting less gas in the tank at a time. And I suppose I could go out and buy a plastic gas tank of the type people use to store gas for their lawnmowers to keep a small supply at home in case there isn't any to be had when I need it, but I'd honestly rather not.

I didn't say I saw no people working for change. I do, however, feel that it's a minority.

I'm well aware of the monetary problems, especially since my husband must drive 175 miles a day for work. Higher prices are hitting us very hard. Also, the state of Wisconsin has some of the highest natural gas prices in the nation, especially as it relates to income. We have already been warned to expect a 20% increase this year, and that is on top of similar increases the last two years. It will be worse if crude oil prices sky rocket. Last year we lived in a home at 66 degrees during the day and 60 at night to conserve and it still was killing our budget.

I didn't say everyone could ride a bike to get groceries. But there are plenty who can, and won't.

If we could change our circumstances, we would in a heartbeat. We are investigating other job options, for instance. But the situation in our corner of the world isn't very good.

I did point up several great ideas: Combine trips, ride bikes when possible, stay home unless it's necessary to drive. Don't buy gas if you don't need it (draining resources), car pool when possible, make your kids walk if it's not too far, ration those extra curricular activities that require lots of extra driving.

Dianne

There are still a lot of houses with very little insulation in them. I have compared "costs" with my brother in law who lives in Somerset UK. They rarely get severe frosts, and almost no snow. No matter how we do the comparison, it is significantly cheaper to heat my house in Ottawa, than it is to heat his in Somerset. Go figure.

-- Jim Cripwell. A volante tribe of bards on earth are found,/ who, while the flattering zephyrs round them play,/ on "coignes of vantage" build their nests of clay;/ how quickly from that aery hold unbound,/ dust for oblivion!/ To the solid ground/ of nature trusts the mind that builds for aye. Wordsworth.

And most of all make and double check your shopping list so you don`t need to go out again for some forgotten item!

We have a whiteboard on a kitchen cabinet door and on it write anything that we run out of. Having said that, this weekend we bought everything for a chicken curry - and forgot the chicken!!! Funny, apart from the fact that we now need to fill up a day earlier than we otherwise would have!

Pat P

I think you are doing a great job, better than I am and I am careful. Please don't try storing gas, it's very unwise.

I can see insulation makes a big difference but also the humans do as well. The temperature starts hitting zero and I put on a sweater. My first reaction is not to turn up the heating.

I see too many people who feel they should be able to drift round the house all winter dressed in tshirts, it isn't feasible or desirable with our temperatures.

I honestly can't say. I do think about cost--I organize my errands so that I make one well-planned trip circuit instead of a half dozen little trips in a day. I shop at one grocery store, rather than drive from store to store in search of "specials". My friends and I car pool to our social events, rather than take five or six cars. And, as I said, my car is still a small one, and gets better milage than many.

However, our western cities tend to be expansively laid out, and public transit here isn't good. I can drive to the university in five minutes, but to take a bus means at least 45 minutes and one or two transfers depending on the time of day. Regina people often talk about no one having more than a 15 minute commute, but it is not possible for very many to get to work in a 15 minute bus ride. So driving remains a necessity for the forseeable future. Given that it makes sense for me to drive to do most of my errands, I would prefer to do it in a way that gives me enjoyment--heaven knows there are enough cranky drivers on the road. I'm the one enjoying the music on my stereo, the wind in my hair, and stopping for pedestrians, geese and gophers. Dawne

That sounds just like B.C's roads Jim! lol.

Simple things that reduce gas

First ask yourself how much the price of cigarettes will have to go up before people quit smoking, or how much the price of alcohol has to rise before the line-ups disappear from the liquor stores..

Some months ago, we had a short discussion on this, and

I have to admit that I too love the 'feel of the car'. It's so much more than just getting from point A to point B. I love to drive, and get great enjoyment out of travelling by road, meeting people, seeing the sights, and just enjoying the experience. When it's done from the drivers seat of a car that handles well on the road, offers great comfort, and a few conveniences such as A/C, stereo, electric everything, then it's just that much more enjoyable. If it costs, so be it. The only down side of the cost is that it isn't a necessary evil. It's purely government greed, the same as alcohol and tobacco taxation levels.

Maureen In Vancouver, B.C.

I think the price of gas will be largely irrelevant to driving habits because most people do not know or do not believe that changing their driving habits (by which I mean speed, acceleration, etc.) will make any kind of significant difference. Yes, I know there is ample evidence that it

*does* make a difference, but many people don't believe it anyway, or think their situation is somehow immune to the laws of physics ;-) Certainly, there is little press about it around here, so I'm sure *many* are ignorant of those facts. Also, how one drives is quite habitual and it may be challenging to focus on driving differently than one is used to. People will cut back on the amount of driving they do long before they change *how* they drive. I mean, really, people also believe that weaving in and out of traffic and driving dangerously will get them to their destination across town *much* faster. They believe that they can speed and such because *they're* good drivers, so it's not dangerous for them.

Best wishes, Ericka