OT: Hope for a Veto!

No, 0bama is the one pushing it! What a mess!!

just me, Cathy from KY in CA

just me, Cathy from KY in CA

There is nothing wrong with pushing the concept of universal health coverage however if a single mom with a couple of kids can't go to a doctor or hospital and get the same treatment as Obama's wife then what the Senate passed was a sham! Hilorey Clinton a strong advocate for the concept is quite about it these days.

Fred

nothing changes, nothing changes.Don't back stitch to email, just stitchit.

snipped-for-privacy@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

But it's not universal....they left that part out!

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

And polls show that about 60 of Americans don't want universal government health care; most are satisfied with what we have. However there are many glaring problems that need fixing. The "donut hole" in Medicare D RX for example. Also all the unnecessary tests which run the prices way up. Physicians do it because they are scared to death of the litigious lawsuits, where the penalties far outweigh the"crime". Tort reform would help that.

State Medicaid will normally take care of the single Mom and two kids. Personally I think more effective use of Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants for the routine stuff should be done. You don't need a pediatrician for a school sports physical, or to administer some routine shots.

Some years ago I worked in a practice where we had a NP in training. She could prescribe most of the routine meds, and saved a lot of waiting time for the patients.

I have worked in England under the National Health Care, although it was last in 1961. I have worked in US with our system.

All have pros and cons. However we cannot go trillions and trillions of dollars in debt.

My 2 cents.

Gillian

I'll stay out but will say that I love our Canadian system, it is universal and although it may have some flaws, it works well. Many of the complaints I have heard have been people who went to emerge when they were not emergencies (duh - that's why they waited hours there) and we have no need to fear bankruptcy because of health.

My recent knee replacement did not incur a bill, well I had to pay for the television in my room, and the physio I am still having is also covered.

I think the litigious US mind does not help though, a couple of people said to me 'Aren't you going to see a lawyer' because I had damage to the femoral nerve - well no - for a start why would it be in his interests to deliberately/carelessly damage the nerve ? As time wears on I can see he is as upset as I am about it, he regards it as a failure. I found myself telling him to cheer up ! It has simply meant I was more inconvenienced for six months or so whereas others got up and walked easily lol

As a widow I would have been bankrupt by the time David died. He needed ops and expensive treatments for years.

I am glad that I do not have to even think of illness in the context of what it might cost.

I totally agree. Our Canadian system is wonderful, and I have a fair bit of experience dealing with it.

We were recently on a cruise and got asked a lot of questions about our system by some new American friends. It's a shame the misinformation that has been given to the American people in regards to our Canadian health care system.

In my opinion President Obama is on the right track :)

take care, Linda D. in B.C., Canada

That reminded me of the Canadian woman the insurance companies trotted out at first to condemn the Canadian system, the one who implied she would be dead now if she had waited on the Canadian system to operate on her brain tumour.

It proved to be a bunch of lies - she does have a benign brain tumour, removing it was optional and she was told she could wait her turn and have it done just the same but most medics agreed, better to leave it alone and monitor it throughout her life to see if it grew any bigger, then consider high risk brain surgery.

Smoke and mirrors.

Concerning the Canadian medical system. It should not be forgotten when the original system was introduced, by Tommy Douglas, in Saskatchewan, the doctors were completely dead against it. They went on strike for about a month, before being forced to accept the system. The miracle that happened, was that after about 12 months, the doctors found out what a wonderful system it was. For the first time for our doctors, they could treat their patients the way they ought to be treated; on the basis of medical necessity, irrespective of money. The doctors got the same remuneration no matter if their patient was a millionaire or out of work. In the end, it was pressure from both the public AND the medical profession that forced our federal government, and the other provincial governments, to introduce a Canadian wide system. Jim.

The U.S. cannot sustain the current system. It is bankrupting our economy. Not to mention the millions uninsured and the millions more underinsured. Our deductible for non-generic prescriptions just doubled from $20 to $40. All of my drugs except two are not available as a generic. Do you know what that will do to our bank account? On top of that, we often don't go to the doctor because we simply can't afford the $40.

As for over testing: it is not necessarily because of protection against malpractice. It is often because hospitals and doctor clinics make BIG bucks off of unnecessary tests. But that doesn't make headlines.

Obama did the right thing. The Republicans are doing the wrong thing and looking quite smug about it. When this first came into the spotlight, most Americans wanted change, until the insurance institutions and Republican legislators started their smear campaign.

Dianne

Karen C - California wrote in news:7pupfoF13pU1 @mid.individual.net:

I am in this situation, the new law as passed by the Senate does not help me in fact, as I understand it, I will now be mandated to purchase insurance that I cannot pay for, with no realistic help.

This is a tax for the unalloyed benefit of the insurance companys, the Republicans are bad, the Democrats give lip service to helping the people, but are worse.

I am going to vote Whig.

Keith Barber snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net

One cannot please all.....and the current Administration and Congress are just buying power, to the detriment of the entire economy.. They are so concerned in winning the election for seats in 2010 they will do just about anything.

We need a third party of honest people, but where does one find honest politicians???

My little island with just chocolate, wine and stitching supplies looks better every day. LOL

Gillian

I am in total agreement with you. Though my island may be stocked with tea, bourbon, and stitching supplies.

Donna in Virginia

I think there is room for all of the above and beading supplies and wondrous yarns.

Cheryl

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

I can't recall any part of Canada going trillions, billions, millions, in debt due to the national universal system. The system is either financed by citizens paying a government medical insurance premium or through an income tax deduction. It is a bit hard to calculate my costs but I'm told that approx. $4500 a year pays for all hospital and doctor bills for my DW and myself should we need it, that would include all lab tests, x-rays, mirs, etc. prescriptions drugs both generic and otherwise are also covered with a small yearly deductible to prevent abuse. In our case everything would add up to approx. $5300 a year which is paid through an income tax. Obviously the higher the income the more that would be taxed for medical costs and vise-versa. For a lot of senior citizens with low pensions they might not be paying a dime.

Plus Jim is correct about who gets what! An orderly in a hospital who empties bed pans all day or a homeless person on the street gets the same care and attention as a brain surgeon or professor.

Technically speaking the system has been in use for so long that most of us paid premiums or taxes when we were young and didn't need the system so you might say that as we age and require medical treatment we get it because we have paid in advance.

IMHO the senators should have done something like this; (1) Pass a universal government health bill - everyone is covered and everyone pays either by tax or premium, (2) Establish what the tax or premium is to be in order to cover costs - in the first year it is anyone's guess, (3) Legislate what will be covered and what will not be covered. (4) Let private insurance handle what is left - cosmetic surgery, etc.

In that manner, debates and arguments in item (3) do not conflict with who is covered in item (1).

Fred

nothing changes, nothing changes.Don't back stitch to email, just stitchit.

"Karen C wrote (snip)

Heartless as it might seem at first read, Canadian tort law tends to be much like this. If you are hurt or injured, the medical care system does a reasonably good job of taking care of you. Damages in legal actions cover things like the need for personal attendants, modifications to living quarters, and loss of income. In the event of death, the survivors are compensated for the financial losses around the death, which would include the loss of the dead person's income, the need for childcare if a widow needs to return to work, and things like that. A child or an elderly person's death seldom changes someone's financial situation for the worse. Our system has never gone for the huge amounts for emotional pain and suffering that have made the American system so lucractive for "victims" and their lawyers. The loss of anyone you love is terrible, but our system, at least so far, has taken the view that this is not something that money can make up for.

Dawne

As a Canadian who immigrated to the US 10 years ago, I've been following this closely. I had extensive experience with the Canadian system (multiple operations before 4 years of age, a craptastic immune system my whole life, and a benign brain tumour at 20. One for which I underwent 9 months of drug treatment, and then opted (by my own choice) to have surgery to remove. And I didn't think twice about having to wait 2 months for the surgery after the decision was made.). I'm more than happy to explain to anyone I meet about differences and good and bad parts in each of the systems. One of the biggest things the general American seems unwilling to accept is having to wait for treatment. As near as I can tell, it's equated with "bad treatment" if you have to wait for anything. To me, this is probably the biggest stumbling block to instituting a government run medical care system in the US.

Moving to the US at 25, my biggest concern was health care. I've been lucky that I've been continuously employed here because I'd never be able to get anything other than possibly a catastrophic policy otherwise. (Well, except for the two months between jobs when (remember, I was out of work) it cost us $1400/month to maintain our COBRA coverage.) I also ended up hospitalized here ~7 years ago for appendicitus. Long story short, I did NOT have my appendix removed. I spent the weekend in hospital, got loads of IV fluids and a CT scan, one horrid processed cheese slice sandwich, and then was sent home 48 hours after arrival. They billed my insurance company just under $30k. WITHOUT surgical costs.

The initial proposals sounded great. The current ones don't sound like they're actually going to do a lot for most people. I'm starting to think it is likely to end up costing everyone more and providing less! The democrats seem to have lost all willingness to push hard for what they stated was important, and to fight for it. Winning next year's elections seems more important. It almost makes me glad I still have another 4 years before I'll be able to vote here... All the changes seem to be pork to get senators to vote for a bill they

*should* be voting for because it's the right thing to do, and is what they were elected to do. A pox on all politicians! The system here is broken beyond belief, and will take people willing to push the hard choices to get it fixed. Unfortunately, like Gillian, I strongly believe the US *needs* a viable third party. It just doesn't seem to exist.

I pay what are (to me) exhorbitant copays through the company plan, and though it hurts, I'm happy to have that option. Between DH and I, we spend ~$280/month just on copays. On top of what I pay for the insurance we have, which thankfully my company picks up most of the tab for. I would be terrified to ever let my coverage lapse. I see so much waste in the system, so much outrageous billing*, and many people without insurance ending up hospitalized (and costing everyone a ton of money) for things that would have been easily treated if they had access to basic preventative care.

Heather

*Another example of outrageous billing practices last night from a friend. She had surgery on her hand, followed by several follow-up visits as they removed her hardware (metal pins and an external structure) afterwards in stages. For the last follow up with the surgeon, he billed the insurance company $600 for "fabrication costs". The insurance company denied it, so the Dr. sent the bill to her. When she questioned it, she was told "it's for the apparatus he built for you that day". This apparatus was an off the shelf thumb spica ($40 at the medical supply store, I have to use them too). The extent of the fabrication? Slipping it on her hand and then cutting off some excess velcro. When she threatened to scream bloody murder he reduced the charge to $40...

May I add that if you have a pre-existing condition, then you get more medical attention, not less. I have a series of minor problems, which could, potentially, become more serious. So I go and see specialists every 6 months or so, just to keep a check that nothing untoward has happened. Jim.

Heather: You nailed it.

Dianne

Heather > As a Canadian who immigrated to the US 10 years ago, I've been

So get everyone you know to start phoning and writing the Senators and Congresspersons!! The Squeaky wheel gets the grease! OR HAVEN'T YOU NOTICED!!

and in a couple of years ms. *quite* Hilorey Clinton is going to say, "See Obama sold you out!" "You shudda voted for me!"

That is another crock of crap!! No government employee or anyone else for that matter has *EVER* questioned or overuled our doctors opinions or diagnosis! The doctors and speacilists that we have seen have on a number of occassions even sent us to the USA for special treatment that was not available here at the time. We were reimbursed for most medical costs, hotels and meals.

Fred

nothing changes, nothing changes.Don't back stitch to email, just stitchit.