OT - Horrible Shootings at Va Tech

It is absolutely awful, and the families must be worried sick about their kids. The AP and Reuters, online, said the purpose behind the shootings were unknown at this time, and gave no information about the gunman, other than he is dead too. By whom, himself or the police, hasn't been announced.

Gill

ellice wrote:

What a terribly sad situation this is. The death toll now stands at 22.

According to Pete Williams on NBC, two law enforcement officials told him the gunman killed himself.the gunman killed himself

Such a dreadful waste of young life.

Lucille

The local networks are just covering this here - rather than regular programming. It seems they have recovered at least one weapon, the gov of VA is coming back from Japan, where he had recently arrived. They think the shooter is a student ? But not sure, with some grudge against a professor. Part of the tragedy, the shooting at the dorm was around 7 a.m., yet the campus e-mail blast - at 9:26 - told students to be careful that there had been a shooting. Rather than locking down the campus immediately, cancelling classes. If they had done that, then all those people in the classroom which sustained the big shooting (evidently everyone in the class) wouldn't have been in class, the bulk of the commuter students wouldn't have come in, etc. It's pretty awful.

So, now the questions are the notification system, the judgement about what they were told, besides the delay, and the dorm security. They've set up at the adjacent "Va Tech Inn" for families that want to come and reunite with their students at that site.

Just all you can do is have thoughts and prayers for those affected. Interviews with a lot of students on the nerve. Now they're saying death toll is over 30. The other complication - it's so windy that the Medivac Helicopters cannot be used. They've had to ambulance transport down to NC, as well as to other surrounding areea hospitals..

Just really gives you pause.

Ellice

This is reminiscent of Ecole Polytechniuque, Columbine High School, and Dawson College. Maybe, but I dont really expect this to happen, the US Supreme Court may come to realise that their current interpretation of the Second Amendment makes absolutely no sense in the 21st Century. In the meanwhile, let us hope that Stephen Harper and that (other?) idiot Stockwell Day will get it through their thick heads that, here in Canada, we need the gun registry, we need it to be fully enforced, and then we need to get rid of *****ALL***** guns that are not used for hunting (except, of course, for law enforcement and the military).

Yup. It's just sad - but having the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms argument is a heated and complex one.

Ellice

I just heard about this on the news. Our neighbor's son is there, set to graduate in just a couple of weeks, and thankfully he called his mom this morning to check in and say he's OK.

I feel heartsick for all the families.

This is hitting extra hard because I just finished the new Jodi Picoult book yesterday, "Nineteen Minutes," which is about a high school shooting. It was well written, and I was already processing all these emotions elicited by reading the book. Now today it's happened in real life. If any of you has the book, you might want to wait a bit to start reading! What a horrible convergence.

Sue

That would have made a lot of sense EXCEPT for the fact the country is full of guns, and those who misuse them will always be able to get them by illegal means. Most legitimate gun owners go through all the necessary paperwork either when they purchase the gun, or have state permits etc. You simply cannot lock the barn door after the horse has bolted!!. It is 200 year too late.

Look at UK; they had a very strict gun law when I was young, and I never saw an armed policeman. Now guns are prevalent, and police frequently carry. DH has applied for a "carry" permit from the state of Florida for his new gun. He had to submit fingerprints, and a lot of paperwork to the state for this permit.

However, I am sure if I needed a gun, there are many street corners right here in Lakeland where I could buy one for the right price. They are a trading commodity in the drug scene.

The shooting is totally tragic, and my heart really goes out to the families, and the other students. We were just discussing colleges yesterday, regarding my DGS, and VaTech is one that is on his list of preferred schools. Two years from now, he could have been one of those students!!

Gillian

I hope you are wrong. It may take 200 years to *fix* the problem, but I sincerely hope that this tragedy will allow to take the first small step on what will undoubtedly be a very long journey.

I think that this very sensitive, emotive issue will only be resolved when you can legislate "responsibilities" just as easily as you can legislate "rights"

As a follow-up here is a sobering statistic: There has been a monthly average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theatre of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2,867 deaths. That gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers. The firearm death rate in Washington D.C.is 80.6 per 100,000 persons for the same period. That means that you are more likely to be shot and killed in the U.S. Capital than you are in Iraq.

Further, by Florida State University criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck:

"The risk of being a victim of a fatal gun accident can be better appreciated if it is compared to a more familiar risk...Each year about five hundred children under the age of five accidentally drown in residential swimming pools, compared to about forty killed in gun accidents, despite the fact that there are only about five million households with swimming pools, compared to at least 43 million with guns. Thus, based on owning households, the risk of a fatal accident among small children is over one hundred times higher for swimming pools than for guns."[1]

and other such eye-opening data analysis and research.

As Gillian said, "those who misuse them will always be able to get them by illegal means."

The day they make guns illegal in this country is the day I will choose to become an outlaw. The second amendment is for the protection of the people from the gummint and I will not have that right taken away from me.

LizardGumbo ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote: and entertained us with

But do you seriously believe you need a gun to protect yourself from your own government ? I could see that if I lived in Zimbabwe, but not here in Canada !

You are right, this is an issue that will *never* be settled. I am a natural born Brit, came to the US at the age of 24 on a one year contract, met and married DDH and became a naturalised American citizen at age 32. I do NOT think all the "rights" which are in the Constitution should be there. My personal peeve is the right of the press and freedom to speak. In this day of 24 hr a day media coverage, well!!!!Sometimes common sense should prevail. But....that is another nest of worms.

We will struggle along, and may we live to see another day. Regarding Jim's comment about 200 years from now...well, that is another issue. We will possibly be annihilated, or speaking Chinese. Who has a crystal ball?

I am trying hard not to make this a political controversy; we all have beliefs, and in real life compromise usually prevails.

I think I shall stitch tonight!

Gillian

Yes.

Ah, but the 2d Amendment (right to bear arms) contains a responsibility along with the right: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

As read by some constitutional scholars, this implies that the right to bear arms is contingent upon the responsibility of active participation in "a well regulated militia".

The first half of the sentence has seemingly been lost by those who advocate only the right without the responsibility.

Fred

I often wonder why we have the "Human Rights Act" but no matching "Human Responsibilities Act"

I am an Australian, so my take on this may not be accurate.

I didn't think it had any thing to do with the government, that it was more a "class" thing - more a matter of the poor having the same rights as the wealthy. If that is true (and as I say I'm not an American, though many of my ancestors were), then the usefulness of the original reason for the "right to bear arms" is long gone. However, as Dr Phil says often things start for once reason and continue for another. :)

Rosemary in Melbourne, Australia