OT: What connection between 4th and 1812

The War of 1812 between the United States and Great Britain.

The music commemorated the war on Moscow though - at least I always thought it did, they besieged Moscow.

True, but IIRC Tchaikovsky played it in Carnegie Hall and we adopted it as our own. It's just a perfect fit for us.

Sorry Lucilla, the 1812 Overture commerates the Franco-Russian war. The Overture contains parts of the Marsaillaise (sp?).

I know that. We adopted it because it's a good fit.

All the cannons...

True.

The Year 1812, Festival Overture in E flat major, Op. 49,[1] popularly known as the 1812 Overture is an overture written by Russian composer Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky in 1880 to commemorate Russia's defense of Moscow against Napoleon's advancing Grande Armée at the Battle of Borodino in 1812. The overture debuted in the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow on August 20, 1882,[2] in the Gregorian calendar (the date in the Julian calendar was August 8). The overture is best known for its climactic volley of cannon fire and ringing chimes.

On his 1891 visit to the United States, Tchaikovsky conducted the piece at the dedication of Carnegie Hall in New York City.[3] While this piece has little connection with United States history besides the War of 1812 diverting the British, freeing Napoleon to attack Russia, it is often a staple at Fourth of July celebrations, such as the annual show by the Boston Pops[3] and at Washington DC's annual program called A Capitol Fourth.[4]

Well, the connection may not be logical. Our war or 1812 was the new world theater of operations of the Napoleonic wars in Europe. We all know he (Nappy) got his butt kicked in the Russia campaign.

My guess is that the 1812 Overture was a celebration of victory on an occasion of great moment. No more than that. Poor choice, IMHO.

Alex

When did the so-called Franco-Russian war take place? Was is not part of the Napoleonic wars? Remember there were two phases, before and after his (nappy's) first exile. As for the Marsaillaise, both it and the then Russian national anthem are reflected in the score. Why not? It was a war, at least on a local level (i.e. from the Russian Perspective), that involved only two belligerents. Musical license.

IIRC, Tchaikovsky also wrote another Napoleonic piece, the name of which I do not recall, but which involved 2 orchestras on stage, one French and the other Russian. (Perhaps someone can correct me on this, as a part of me wants to place this at Waterloo!)

It was a flash-in-the-pan hit when stereo first came out. And if you bought the LP, you got flags to set up on the L and R speakers, and could hear the opposing armies IN PLACE. It was great fun at the time.

Again, as I recall, both national anthems were played to identify the opposing forces.

Alex

I'm slapping myself on the side of my head. Is it possible, you're thinking of the Franco-PRUSSIAN war? Prussia is in today's NE Germany on the border with Poland, but it didn't occur until the 1870's.

Alex

I have found it. (Eureka!) It was called Wellington's Victory, or The Battle of Vitoria, and was written by L. Van Beethoven, not Tchaikovsky. Other than that, my comments were spot on. About the national anthems, etc.

Alex

We groove on using a cannon as a musical instrument.

Our orchestra has an electronic "cannon", but I believe that some concerts invite the National Guard (or, in Boston, West Point) to bring in a real one.

I LOVE watching the Boston Pops perform it complete with real cannons. It's an extremely stirring piece regardless of it's origin.

Have you been to the Boston Common to listen.. Talk about fun

In person it's incredable and it's not just the cannons that are real The piece also calls for chruch bells to ring, so they ring all the church bells in Boston. I love hearing that. We try to go down every year. I think the real answer is that it just goes perfectly with fireworks.

-Margaret in MA

That was what I meant when I said it fits.

I've sat on the lawn at Tanglewood on the 4th and they do a wonderful rendition of the Overture, but I'm sad to say I never made it to Boston on the 4th. I guess watching it on TV will have to do.

Lucille

Yes, I got that part... about the battle of Borodino and the 1812 overture, it's just that I have never heard in all my history studies of a specific Franco-Russian war! The term implies that this war was between two belligerents, France and Russia, when the actuality was that this was only a Russian (think Eastern Front) campaign as part of a larger conflict. The Russian campaign by Nappy hardly deserves to be called a war in and of itself, although I understand that some do so. Anyway, if this is THE Franco-Russian war, then it has company, as there were 5-6 others also deserving of the term, one of which is also better known as the Crimean war. See Wikipedia for openers.

FWIW: It is conventional wisdom that Napoleon discovered Pumpernickel bread on the earlier part of their invasion of Russia. The story is that his horse, supposedly named Nickel, was being tended when Napoleon was taken to dinner and presented with black bread, which he pronounced pain-pour-Nickel (bread for my horse). Rumor was that this happened in (then) southern Poland.

When you enjoy your pumpernickel, do it in memory of Nickel and of Nappy, who liked Josephine better when she had not bathed.

Alex, wondering if this is part of the historical resistance on the part of some French to bathing and the use of deodorants.....

I would LOVE to see the performance in person but I'm up in Nova Scotia with not much of a travel budget. :-)