Question about Brazilian embroidery technique

Should I assume that these stitches should be done with a finer needle than the bullions so as not to distort the bullions or ....

FWIW, because I need to do a lot of wraps, I'm using a thinnish but long doll needle as the milliners needles I have were too short. A bullion expert could do 'continuous' ones but I haven't 'mastered' that technique to my satisfaction.

Please don't hate me for following up my own message.

I can't answer your questions, but we could never hate you! C

FWIW, when I was taking my Italian embroidery classes, and had a very strict and determined teacher WRT bullions, and picots, and buttonholes...we practiced. A lot. My suggestion - get yourself a doodle cloth, and practice on a much larger scale than the actual embroidery. IME, it does help with learning some techniques, and is one of those things that most of us just don't bother to do, 'cause we don't need it, or think of it, or want to spend the time. But, with bullions, and the buttonholes on them- which I'm guessing are like picots on them (though, of course I could be wrong), practice helps. So, maybe try doing some with 1 strand of perl 5 and a 22 needle, getting the wrapping, poking, not unraveling thing down, and then switch to something finer - or right to what you're doing. Are you using a long chenille?

So, just a suggestion, but maybe it will help you with the technique. Or could just be something you don't need to do.

Whatever - hope you're having fun with it!

ellice

Are there no instructions as to what type of rayon thread to use? Yes, one strand, but there are so many different types of rayon thread, which ultimately affects the outcome. It's really easier to do bullions with rayon. Normally you use a milliners about the same diameter as the thread you are using. They can be quite long, and you may have to move the wraps off the needles (the eye end)if you run out of room.

This is new to me. I know that buttonhole stitches (lifted) are used a lot in Brazilian, but without more specifics, I'll be darned if I can help. Can you tell us exactly what the instructions say?

Dianne

Don't most of the Brazilian embroidery pieces use that twisted rayon, the Edmar stuff? I know that in the shop where I was working, she keeps stock of that in 2 weights, strictly for the brazilian embroidery. IIRC, it's a buttonhole twist, and comes in a really fine weight, and a slightly heavier one - skeins hanging on cards.

Wonder if there's a video somewhere that Anne could watch. Just a thought.

ellice

Because I'm in a learning mode and don't want to buy anything until I decide if I want to pursue the technqiue, I'm using whatever I have on hand, not traditional Brazilian embroidery threads. I've found that a single strand of cotton floss doesn't work well; 2 strands work a little better but long lengths of 8 or 12 perle cotton work best for me.

I remembered that I had a 7" bullion needle which is making doing the long knots easier. The trick as ellice said is practise, practise, practise!!!

I've scanned several pages from Barbara Johnson's book to show what I'm talking about. Warning -- although I slightly optimized the pdf's, they're still quite large (500+ k per file)

illustrates the variety of threads that were available circa 1980. I've included it because each shape is apparently dependent on the number (weight or thickness) when deciding how many stitches or wraps to use.

no explanation needed ;-)

illustrates some of the designs I want to use

It says the last page doesn't exist. . .

Somehow a slash got omitted -- try this

I love the hint: ". . . better results if you stab stitch" and in the next sentence says sew stitch works better. Now if that wouldn't confound a beginner, I don't know what will!

Your third link came up empty - no valid url.

If you go here, you will see a pictorial and details on making good bullions.

has to do with the way you wind the thread around the needle. Heirloom sewers often use a single strand of floss, but if you wind it the wrong way, you'll not like it very much. To put it easily: the thread should twist up as you wrap, not untwist. Yes, pearl cottons make lovely bullions. As do single strands of rayon floss. By the way, you wrap rayon opposite of the way you wrap cotton. Some silks go either way, so you always have to watch to make sure your thread is not unwinding whenever you're using a thread that you're unsure whether it's z- or s-twist.

There are differences of opinion on whether or not the wraps should be the same size as the thread or the same size as the needle. The latter can make the wraps more loose. But sometimes you want that effect, such as when working with wool. Also, when learning, you'll get the ends tight and the middle loose. While in Brazilian that's not acceptable, it is a beautiful way to make rose petals and I've seen textile artists use that technique.

Glad you found a nice, long milliner. Milliners are used because they are the same diameter the full length of the needle. In other words, they don't bulge out at the eye. This makes it easier to pull the wraps through. But you can still use a different needle. You just have to fiddle more.

The illustrations are very poor, not uncommon for dimensional authors. It would appear that she is using a blanket stitch inside the two worked bullions. I'd have to see that to determine if it's worth the effort. I can't see how this would make the bullion lacy in appearance.

Have fun! Learning bullions doesn't take that long, but is harder with cotton or silk floss. Stick with cotton pearls or use a DMC rayon floss. You'll run into trouble using more than one strand, that's why Edmar (and other rayon manufacturers) threads come in so many different thicknesses.

Dianne

anne wrote:

Dianne

I doubt if I'd ever qualify for master craftsman I'm not particular enough and think inconsistencies like tapered ends on bullions add interest.

Thanks for the advice.