Will I get to stitch today???

Yes, I am feeling very fornate and relieved. I'm still in reality about everything, but now I know I can push a little harder witout creating any more damage.

Thank you one and all for sharing in my happines. My mother was very relieved.

...

Oh ho ho ho ho no. If you havent had it, never have it. Basically it's almond paste made into the most deilcious, sticky candy you evern tasted. At leas I love it. They also make it into little fruits during the holidays and they come with cellophane in a small box and is pretty expensive. Maybe you've seen them that way?

"Karen C wrote >

Yup, you are an old stick in the mud (VBG). I don't think that a man must support a wife and kids--people should support themselves, and families support each other. What arrangments exactly people make inside a relationship is their choice--one works, both work, whatever--but society should not expect that one or the other can only take one role.

The guy sounds like he needed a change of career, as he obviously wasn't good at the one he chose. It is sad that crime does become a career choice in some families and neighbourhoods.

On the other hand, life can throw some awful changes at you, and someone who once was supporting themself and their family can lose a job (downsizing, outsourcing, budget cuts.....) Divorce, illness, lots of things can throw life off kilter.

If everyone waited until their future life was absolutely secure before choosing a partner and having a family, there are more than a few of us who would be alone and childless forever, including me. To plan is to make God laugh.

Dawne

Thanks Dawne. You said it beautifully.

Wonderful news! Now you have stopped this thing in its tracks, is there any hope you might even be able to move forward?

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans

I agree with Karen, that baby-making should wait until one has a reasonable chance of taking care of them, but then Dawne is also correct in saying that life throws change at one. Why do you suppose I moved with dh from England to Montreal, Canada, then to various parts of Ohio, then to Florida and finally to New Orleans? We moved around a lot cuz that's where the paychecks were available, that's why. And, moreover, during those years I did without a lot of things that other people consider necessities, so that (a) the kids did not suffer, and (b) there was always a little nest egg in the bank, untouched, in case we had to move yet again.

The point about theft being a "career", is that there are all kinds of programs out there to help *able-bodied* people to find and keep a job. Seek and ye shall find.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

Vic -

Have you looked into therapeutic riding programs in your area?

Sue

I too agree that it is best to wait until you have the means to care for kids properly, but I don't think any rules are written in stone. There are singles who are fabulous parents and marrieds who stink at it.

I was responding more to the thought that no matter how much you plan and how much you try, sometimes stuff happens and there simply aint a thing you can do to change it.

You just have to adjust and adapt.

Lucille

That's clearly a regional issue, because it wasn't true in Indiana when I lived there (and was excused) and it hasn't been true in Massachusetts while I've lived here (and have always been thanked for my willingness to serve and sent home).

I believe that's a matter of ADA accomodation to protect the juror's right to serve rather than desperation for someone to serve. But heaven forbid that you be sensitive to someone else's special needs.

Elizabeth

It was a rule in New York. I don't remember the age limit but it was to my way of thinking a stupid thing. A lot of the seniors I knew would have been thrilled to serve because among other things they made a few bucks and it kept them busy, but the law said no.

My FIL died at 86 in 1990 so it's possible that the law has changed by now.

Lucille

Excuse me, but I'm pretty sure your privilege is showing, not to mention your sexism and your blinders. The idea that men should wait until they can support a family to get married is not time-based, but rather class-based. On other words, if you can't remember when it wasn't the case, that's just because you weren't aware of how people who weren't like yourself lived.

And are men who lose their jobs supposed to get divorced right away because they can no longer afford their wives and children?

Should woman have jobs and be able to support their husbands and children before they are "allowed" to get married?

Elizabeth

Hi Bruce - not much younger than you so brought up in UK under same rules ie uniform compulsory , badge , hat, tie and blazer- luckily school sold tie and badge (from poor Liverpool area so none of us would have had it otherwise) most uniform was handmedown from brothers , sisters , cousins etc. I have 2 children (son 21 and daughter 8) and live in a village affilliated to a large RAF base (ex WRAF myself and DH not long left 'the mob' Daughter going through virtually same schooling regime as DS did although her junior school has now become a primary and joined with the infants as numbers have dropped and they need to share staff. Her uniform is red gingham summer dress (most shops) red cardigan or sweatshirt (again easy) school badge or printed sweatshirt (twice the price from school) winter uniform black trousers or gymslip/skirt, white blouse or poloshirt and red cardigan , sweatshirt or fleece. All affordable thank goodness. The only other thing is her group tshirt which stays the same throughout and is yellow - not hard to find. Jan - Wiltshire UK

That's a good idea. Thank you for the suggestion.

Well, in this case, neither of them "worked" in the sense that you and I understand the word. He was the one who brought home the money, and she was the one who dealt with the children. (Note I did not say "brought up" or "parented".)

I was the primary breadwinner all along, so I'm not stuck in the old gender roles, but I do think that SOMEONE in the family should have a job before they think about marriage and babies!

Kind of reminds me of the fact that "thongs" (the footwear) also used to be called flip-flops; wonder if there's a correlation? Hope the bruise fades; perhaps a dr. ought to check it out?

-- Carey in MA

...

I heard a cute expression once; Man makes plans, God laughs. I think it's true. I think where problems happen are when one or both people entering into a marriage think that, for some reason the other person will change down the line. Let's say a man does not want children. The woman he is marrying thinks, I do want children and down the line he will change his mind. That is a very unfair expectation which then causes a lot of strife. She may get pregnant, he will become resentful. Something else which I never understand is how a child becomes more important to the marriage than the spouse. I think it's in the bible that a husband and wife must come first to each other and then the children. That's a healthy example to set for kids.

It's not so cut and dry as I am making it, but these things definitely happen more than not and end in a mess. Poor kids shuffled around. Life is such a crap shoot. But there are many things we can prevent if we're not ignorant.

When something we posses breaks, it's not that the thing that broke which makes us upset, it's the expectation that it would never break.

IMO

The problem is, this guy could "work" for one hour a week (and hang out with his buds the rest of the time) and make $500 tax-free or he could flip burgers 40 hours a week and make $250 less taxes. You can't raise a family in this state on $250, but a guy without a high school diploma and no experience doesn't get more than minimum wage.

After one of his previous stints in the County Hilton, he was placed in such an employment program, which supposedly had a job lined up for him. He called late Friday afternoon when he was released, and when they didn't call back by 5 PM, he "couldn't wait for them" and went back to crime.

Absolutely.

There are some things you can't plan for -- like a major medical crisis when there's no family history, or your entire industry imploding -- but there's got to be a certain amount of preparation and advance thinking if you're going to be successful in life.

If you are not in a financial position to support a child, then don't do anything that would create one until you are. If you think it's hard to keep your knees together when you're in the mood, it's harder still to keep that child fed and clothed when there's no money.

Not to say that you can't unexpectedly find yourself unable to support a pre-existing child, but as Olwyn says, do what you need to in order to have a little nest egg to get you through the occasional upheavals.

You get a side job to have a little extra income, and then you SAVE that income for a rainy day, as opposed to one of my co-workers who was always up against the wall financially, but whenever she got some overtime, she'd spend the extra cash on a treat for herself, and the following week be begging to borrow $20 till payday so they wouldn't turn her lights off, because it hadn't occurred to her to use the extra pay to catch up her bills. Live for today and don't worry about tomorrow until tomorrow doesn't work.