You're right, your children will do just that....sadly, I know. Even though I had talked to them about their dad and his behavior, it still affected them in a huge manner. I can't keep denying that....makes me feel so guilty.
But I finally did escape and got that divorce. Had thought it best for the children at the time but I was wrong....and I didn't have a family to turn to for help. This was in the late 60's early 70's. If I knew then what I know now....well, you know how that one goes.
His behavior is abusive...no doubt about that. Just guessing, but probably something from his childhood that stuck with him all this time. And agian, you are right, this is not something to pass on to your children.
Wish there was something that I could do for real help, but do know that real help is out there.
Your question helped me a lot, Joanna and I thank you for bringing the problem to this group. An incredible depth of knowledge here. Wow. Our DD works with one of those passive/aggressives. She frequently calls me about how to handle her. I had no idea. Now I can aim her toward some real help. I can do sympathy but I really didn't know what to say. Polly
"Joanna" I know for a fact it's his parents who did this to him. I had a run in
Like Polly, I can do sympathy & prayers, too; Also, I'd like to tell you that, from experience with a situation somewhat like yours -- Growing up with a crazy family/insanely bad-tempered mother or father
-- Sometimes passive-aggressive behavior is truly just people who avoid confrontation/conflict at all costs. It's hard for them to express their feelings with a childhood/background like that. Like other people said, you can't change him, but you can change the way you respond, and the way you approach him. There's information out there to help you. I wish you the best of luck with a solution that's good for your whole family.
And I owe you an apology, Joanna. I gave you a flip answer last night. I have no excuse other than I was trying to be funny. (that's me - always going for the cheap laugh) Your question was valid and deserved a serious response. If I had nothing to add to the discussion, I should have kept my mouth shut - oh when will I learn.
I have no experience dealing with people like that and I hope I'm learning too.
So please know that I feel bad that you are having to go through this by yourself. That can't be any fun.
Joanna, what you've written since your first message really makes this look like an abusive relationship, way beyond garden-variety passive- aggressive.
I don't know whether to worry about frightening you or hope that I do, but verbal and other non-physical abusive behavior can escalate into physical violence out of the blue. I'm kind of hyperaware of this right now because a nurse at the hospital where I work was brutally killed by her husband just recently. Her colleagues knew about verbal and other non-physical abuse for a couple of years, but were astounded by the sudden turn to physical abuse and then, maybe six weeks later to her death in front of her two and five year old kids.
PLEASE, PLEASE get help.
By the way, did you know that it's classic for a battered wife not to have friends? For her abuser to blame her for everything? Promising it won't happen again, but always does?
There are plenty of less-than-healthy relationships, but your saying "it frightens me that he could be violent" and "normally doesn't get aggressive unless..." are huge red flags.
I second this!!! I left Idiotman (tm) after wasting 2 1/2 years of my life on him and realizing that he would *temporarily* straighten-up when he sensed that I was getting fed-up enough to leave. Things would be fine for a few weeks, then it was right back to Mr. Professional Victim. Idiotman had a LOT invested in his victim status and was totally uninterested in changing. I.e. his ex-wife was an Evil Bitch because she didn't clean the house (when they were married) but I was an Evil Bitch because I did clean the house (and, even worse, expected him to do household chores, too!!!).
I think your 2 year old pretty much hit the nail square on the head, btw! If Daddy doesn't pay attention to and nurture his kids, they are going to do more and more to *try* to get him to act like a DAD. This is bad for them and bad for you since you'll be picking up the pieces, maybe literally.
Hope this helps! Feel free to email me at arkiv2001[at]gmail.com if you'd like.
It's hard to relay everything that has happened on here into words. The worst so far is his refusal to talk to me. In more then five years he has shown he does have violence in him a few times. Never towards me or people but I do get it. I was in a physically abusive relationship before so I do know. And so I do feel confident in that it will not come to that.
As for friends well that's my nature as well. I don't make good friends very easy. I don't do a lot of associates. When I make friends it's for life. So I have a couple that I would lay my life down for. But they live 3 hrs away. It wasn't always like that, they just retired and moved about 2 yrs ago. So I do go see them but it's harder when they are far away like that. Sometimes I wish I had more friends close by but I find it hard with two and things we just call life. He never stops me from seeing my friends if I want to go I go.
Now I'm defending him but he has only promised to change his behavior twice in five years. Cuz that's how hard it is to get him to talk. It's like trying to communicate with a brick wall. It's his silence that leads to some of those feelings. Which now that I know I will no longer allow him to do it. So he has two choices except it, and we grow together or we will move on separately.
It's very hard to explain that there is no fighting, yelling or screaming but there is tension. I'm not stressed about it. I don't like it. But I'm going to work on my part because that is something I can do. I can force him to change so I'm not worried about that. Either he will or he won't but that's my choice. It's like worrying about the weather. I can't do anything about it so I'm not going to worry about. When I see one of the old behaviors I'll politely call his attention to it. Then he has a choice. I don't think at this point he even realizes what his behaviors do to others. And I do have a conselling appt set up for this. The only issue now is telling him and finding a babysitter. I have not had a babysitter for a couple of years now. So I've put notices in my community to find one. Worst case scenario is I may have to reschedule. But either way I intend on getting some help. With or without him. Hope this explains a little better.
If he ever did raise a hand to me or the kids it would > Joanna, what you've written since your first message really makes this
Joanna, I was married for 19 years to a passive-aggressive man. I always said it would have been easier if he had hit me because it would have only happened once and I would have been out of there. What I finally realized was that it's the same thing. Physical abuse batters the body, emotional abuse batters the spirit. One isn't worse than the other. There's never any excuse for emotional abuse either.
I'm glad you're going to talk to someone. Go even if he won't. And realize that if he won't go and make a sincere effort there's not much hope that he'll change. I'm sure you already know that P/A people have an uncanny ability of saying exactly what people want to hear. Life is too short to live on a roller coaster between "I can't take a minute more of this" and "maybe I AM blowing things out of proportion and things aren't really that bad".
And of course, after the fact, if you so much as imply to any of your mutual friends that the way you were treated by your ex constitutes abuse, most of them will decide you're crazy. But it is.
Abuse is not just being shoved around or hit. Abuse is *anything* that's designed to damage or destroy the self-esteem of the recipient.
And one of the things we have to learn to change ourselves for is to recognize and not accept that sort of treatment. Having once been there, it's going to subtly appeal to us because it feels "normal." And the signs that that's who the other person really is, very early in a relationship, are incredibly subtle and easy to miss.
I've said the same things to friends. I wish he would try to hit me, at least some reaction is better then nothing. I was emotionally abused and neglected by my mother so I refuse now. But your right in the beginning I shrugged it off. Then when I realized it wasn't quite right I figured he would come around given some time and love. Now I know that's not true. But now I know that there is a reason I still hope we can move forward. I'm not again going to allow myself to say "well, it's not that bad", or at least he's not a drunk/drug addict, or physical abuser. Which up until now I have said many many times. That type of thinking on my part is enabling him. I know emotional abuse can take a life time to heal and sometimes then a life time isn't long enough.
From my mother I learned to play the victim. Oh, poor me. Look at me my mother didn't love me, neglected me, and f> YES. (24 years, here)
As others have echoed, seeing a counselor yourself, even if he won't go, is so helpful. The other person has to want to change. I always envision a relationship like an intertwined ball. When one person recognizes poisonous behavior and makes the effort to change [or even to start to] it upsets the balance. The other must make changes also to keep the ball balanced, ot the intertwining is no more.
And, as a victor over emotional abuse as a result of more than one relationship [thinking I was so smart to get away the first time, how could I slide into it again?] I wholeheartedly agree. Abuse doesn't always leave physical scars. No broken bones, no bruises. Except the wall of weight I cocoon behind, and the distrust. You're right, sometimes our friends or family come from the place that if there are no external signs, then there is no abuse.
Good for you for recognizing the issues. Please feel free to email me off ng.
G> I've said the same things to friends. I wish he would try to hit me, at
Twelve step will help with that. Being abused children, we're conditioned to feel comfortable in abusive relationships---this is where that "subtly" abusive part gets dangerous. Consciously we want to walk away from that, and consciously we seek someone who is not that way. But we're apt to end up with someone (as I did, and as you may have) who *says* that's not who they are, so we think we're safe and we've escaped.......but in fact, the reason they feel so "right", so "at home" in our lives, is because they fit right into that mold. Once they've won us, and don't have to pretend, their actions will stop matching what they claim to be and what they claim to be doing.
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