I'm fed up with poorly fitting trousers/pants & currently I have the time to devote to learning how to make a (ladies) trouser pattern. Also have some Christmas money & book tokens to use! Sooooo I'm looking for advice about a method or system that works. I've looked at some library books but they have confused me.... each seems to have a slightly different slant on the 'correct' method. Has anyone found a book that actually works?
best Anne Higham in England
Have you looked at David Page Coffin's trouser book? I haven't, but I gather that it is similar in style and thoroughness to his Shirtmaking book. If so, it'll be well worth getting.
Many thanks for this suggestion - no, I haven't seen this book.
I'll get a copy from the library prior to committing my vouchers!
best Anne H.
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If you are going for 'Making Trousers for Men & Women' - a German review on Amazon says that it doesn't teach you how to make a pattern, it just teaches the fine tuning. Amazon, greed... I mean helpful as ever, turned out a couple of other books that looked like they might be something:
U.
I haven't seen David Page Coffin's book. I have had the Pants for Anybody by Pati Palmer for several years. It is fine for me, but a friend of mine swears by Pants for Real People, also by Pati Palmer and Marta Alto.
Maybe a trip to the library to look at the different books would be the best way to see which one is best for the individual?
Emily
Ursula ~ thank you for the headsup about this book.... and for the Amazon listing. Two of these I've already seen via my local library - unfortunately the Pati Palmer books are not available through that source. Having seen a number of books via the library - that is what prompted me to ask if anyone has found a book/system that works! I suppose what I'm hoping for is personal recommendation rather than me taking pot luck. Thanks for your imput - much appreciated.
best Anne H.
Emily ~ thank you for responding.
I have already been down the library route, which I why I need help! There are a number of books covering this very subject but I became confused by the variety of techniques offered. I am hoping that someone has used a system/author and has had success - I won't throw a hissy if it doesn't pan out for me, but it seems better to go down a proven route than flounder, which is what I'm likely to do without guidance. The Pati Palmer books are not available through my library system here in the UK.... great pity.
best Anne H.
It takes me about 45 minutes to custom draft a basic pants pattern that only needs fine-tuning with Connie Crawford's methods, which is what I'd suggest if you were here, but her books are hard to come by in the UK, and the DVD is in US format only, I think (but drop her a note and see if it can be put in UK format: snipped-for-privacy@fashionpatterns.com ). Otherwise, I suspect Aldrich's books are available in Europe more easily -- and they use the metric system, but she doesn't explicitly balance the patterns, at least not in the volumes I've checked.
The other thing I like about Crawford's draft is that she has a plus size draft that works well for women who are rounder than most, which is many of us with, um, mature bodies. The shift in proportions usually takes place about 50" hip circumference.
Do you have a straight skirt pattern that fits you? Grain lines are straight across at midabdomen and across the backside? Waistline is tilted for those of us (many, many!) who have waists that are higher in back than front? That can be a useful tool to look at when you start to draft -- the top of the skirt and the top of the pants are the same; then you need to add crotch extensions to form the leg, and shape the legging.
There are two major crotch measurements you need to get right... total crotch length, CF waist to CB waist through the legs; crotch depth or chair depth and side seam/waist intersection to a flat chair seat as you're sitting. And the crotch shape has to look like you... younger women tend to have more backside than front, older women, the reverse, so the curve shape has to reflect that.
Kay
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Well, it seems that Emily gave you a very good hint with her post, and the fact that the books are not available shouldn't scare you off. If it was my quest - and, come to think of it, it is in a way, since I'd like a decent trousers pattern, too - I would ask Emily why she prefers the one book and why her friend prefers the other. The fact that people who do some sewing can produce (I suppose more than just barely acceptable) results with either of these books seems a clear evidence for both of them being worth their money. If you have perhaps followed discussions in this newsgroup, you might remember Kate and her swimsuit. She tried to make it following the instructions of the Burda pattern and would have failed miserably if she hadn't had some prior experience with sewing Lycra and other elastics.
Another thing that often happens to me when I'm under pressure time-wise is that I can't seem to get the meaning of what I read. So you need perhaps to free yourself from any imaginary pressure and remember that books are paper with words and pictures on it, nothing more, nothing less. If you don't understand a particular word, there will be some dictionary that has a translation for it. If you take your time, most pictures and graphics can be deciphered.
And if you have the lead that for example the two books mentioned previously are both good, you might be able to look at only those two at a real-world bookshop and compare them with each other. Perhaps, if you think about it, you'll be able to make a list of what you want exactly from the book (more than 'I want to make a pants pattern').
Just my 2 cents, but I'd be grateful to Emily if she would answer my question about why she prefers one book and her friend the other. ;-)
U.
| >
| > Emily ~ thank you for responding. | >
| > I have already been down the library route, which I why I need help! | > There are a number of books covering this very subject but I became | > confused by the variety of techniques offered. I am hoping that someone | > has used a system/author and has had success - I won't throw a hissy if | > it doesn't pan out for me, but it seems better to go down a proven route | > than flounder, which is what I'm likely to do without guidance. The | > Pati Palmer books are not available through my library system here in | > the UK.... great pity. | >
| > best | > Anne H. | | | Another thing that often happens to me when I'm under pressure time-wise is | that I can't seem to get the meaning of what I read. So you need perhaps to | free yourself from any imaginary pressure and remember that books are paper | with words and pictures on it, nothing more, nothing less. If you don't | understand a particular word, there will be some dictionary that has a | translation for it. If you take your time, most pictures and graphics can be | deciphered.
Ursula ~ thanks for your observations. I'm happy to follow & execute instructions - my problem is that I want to be reassured that my time and effort is rewarded with a pattern that is somewhere (anywhere!) near to a fit for me. Thus I'd aimed to get a recommendation of a book/system that has already been successfully used.
best Anne H.
| >
| > I'm fed up with poorly fitting trousers/pants & currently I have the | > time to devote to learning how to make a (ladies) trouser pattern. Also
| | It takes me about 45 minutes to custom draft a basic pants pattern that | only needs fine-tuning with Connie Crawford's methods, which is what I'd | suggest if you were here, but her books are hard to come by in the UK, | and the DVD is in US format only, I think (but drop her a note and see if | it can be put in UK format: snipped-for-privacy@fashionpatterns.com ).
45 minutes? I can but dream! I've emailed as you suggested and am awaiting response. The Pant DVD and Pant Book Special is currently on special offer on her website which is good news. The book is also available on eBay but pricey. The book is not available via my library service.Otherwise, I | suspect Aldrich's books are available in Europe more easily -- and they | use the metric system, but she doesn't explicitly balance the patterns, | at least not in the volumes I've checked.
I've seen a couple of Ruth Aldrich's books but, of course, I'd no idea if they would provide me with the good fit I want, which is why I was looking to the knowledgeable folk here for leads to good systems/books.
| The other thing I like about Crawford's draft is that she has | a plus size draft that works well for women who are rounder than most, | which is many of us with, um, mature bodies. The shift in proportions | usually takes place about 50" hip circumference.
This hits to nail on the head. Having piled on the poundage due to medic treatments I wanted to get my head around trouser patterns once and for all..... in the hope that when I lose this weight it won't cost a small fortune in new trews.
| Do you have a straight skirt pattern that fits you? Grain lines are | straight across at midabdomen and across the backside? Waistline is | tilted for those of us (many, many!) who have waists that are higher | in back than front? That can be a useful tool to look at when you start | to draft -- the top of the skirt and the top of the pants are the same; | then you need to add crotch extensions to form the leg, and shape the | legging.
Unfortunately no, I've never been a skirt user or maker.
| There are two major crotch measurements you need to get right... | total crotch length, CF waist to CB waist through the legs; crotch | depth or chair depth and side seam/waist intersection to a flat chair | seat as you're sitting. And the crotch shape has to look like you... | younger women tend to have more backside than front, older women, the reverse, | so the curve shape has to reflect that.
| Kay
Kay ~ really grateful for the info., I've also scouted around Youtube and Connie Crawford is featured a number of times. Once I hear from the service dept I'll have a better idea of where I'm headed. At the moment I have the enthusiam and time to get to grips with drafting trousers so should strike while the iron's hot!!
Thanks Anne H. In England
Perhaps you don't really need a particular book; Kay wrote just about the perfect explanation. When you start measuring the crotch, you probable have a pair of pants that fit well and you can use them as a guide for the area. Once, you get your toile done & fitted, just try it on with the shoes you intend to wear with them and then its easy to measure the hem.
The fact I like one Pati Palmer book and my friend prefers the other is probably nothing more than I received mine for Christmas/Birthday the year it was written and used it with lots of success. My friend saw hers on sale, bought it, tried it and liked the fit she got. We are totally different in our size and body shapes, which also might have something to do with it, though I doubt it.
Please note that the author of both books is Pati Palmer with Marta Alto as co-author of the one my friend has; so I would expect them to be similar in many aspects. Pati is one of my favorite sewing authors and often Marta co-writes with her.
Emily
Something that's useful to look at:
Look at the center top row... can you see that the U of the crotch shape is very shallow -- the woman that was designed for had almost no thickness from front to back. That too-narrow crotch is what produces what is delicately termed "camel toe" or else a wad of fabric in the abdomen. Here's how it does its evil:
The other pants fitting evil that generally afflicts those of us who are older and rounder is that our waistlines usually slant down. If you tie a string around your middle where you want the waistband to sit, and then someone measures from center back/waistline to floor and CF waistline to floor, the front distance is usually shorter. Your waistline slants down in front. But the pants are cut to expect a waistline level with the floor. For someone with much of a slanted waist, this can translate to the front waist of the pants up around the bra band. Or a big pooch of fabric in the abdomen. Or the pants feel tight in the upper thighs when you walk because the side seams have been pushed to the back (and you've got extra fabric in the back of the thigh, too, it seems). The real cure is probably better posture, but if you're going to work with the body at hand, the patternmaking cure is to make the pants with a slanted waist. (That's another thing you can experiment with on a pair of pants that's about to give up the ghost).
Going back to the photos of the pants patterns at
Kay
"Emily Bengston" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:C9649B4A.B2BC% snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com...
Hmm, I didn't read that one properly, but did so now. You are right, I guess, but I'll have to ask what the second important measurement exactly is. Chair depth?
I doubt that, too. I guess, once you know a little about sewing, you may just pick any better book on a given topic, work with it, and get good results which makes you henceforth swear by that method, book or whatever although the other one might be just as good. A matter of habit maybe.
I think the biggest problem with pants for me is my body. When I was away this weekend, I stayed in a hotel with a huge bathroom mirror and mercilessly bright lights. So I took a good look. Bad idea, very bad idea. I think I need to lose some weight. Soon. And build up some muscle. My stomach is protruding far too far. I'll leave it at that and spare you the gross details. No need to go for the Twiggy look but some 40 or so pounds might help a lot. 'Nuff said. Thanks for answering!
U.
All methods are correct -- the problem is finding one that's correct for you.
And if you thoroughly understand one method, you'll find that most of the others are that same method seen from a different angle.
If you get Don McCunn's "How to Make Sewing Patterns" you can join a mailing list and get advice from other people who are using the book, and from the author himself: snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com
He also offers on-line sewing courses, but I don't think the pants-sloper course is currently active. You can enroll anyhow, and study the material while waiting for the other students to show up.
Emily ~ your remarks about a toile are well timed... just the other day I went to a local(ish) street market and bought some fabric that'll be ideal for this purpose and so cheap, just £1 per metre. Pity I can't get there more often! Now I feel that nothing is lost if I really make a hash of things. My current plan is to approach my library with inter-lending requests and see where that gets me.
Many thanks for all your help.
best Anne H. in England
Joy ~ I've applied to join the Yahoo group and am awaiting membership approval. Once approved I can browse the archives etc.
Many thanks for your thoughtful response.... much appreciated.
best Anne H. in England
| On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 13:49:01 -0000, ath wrote: | >
| > I've seen a couple of Ruth Aldrich's books but, of course, I'd no idea | > if they would provide me with the good fit I want, which is why I was
| Something that's useful to look at: |
______________________snip____________________________
Kay ~ you've covered just about every problem I've had with shop-bought trousers... camel toe, wads etc. Wonderfully descriptive names! I'm even more determined now to get my head around this pattern making.
Getting the crotch shape right seems to be the key for me... although other things like slanting waistlines and thigh size are going to be influential in getting the fit I'd like. I've bookmarked those webpages & I'm sure I'll be returning time and again.
Another thing ~ the big differences in patterns from the various companies is an eye-opener... I had no idea.
I'm really grateful for the time and trouble you've taken with my query..... best Anne H. in England
Ursula, the chair depth measurement in Crawford's system is done by sitting in a flat-seated chair (I usually get people to sit on a coffee table for this one), and measuring from the intersection of the side seam position with the desired waistband position, down the person to the full hip, then straight down to the chair seat. This is essentially the "rise" of the body of the pants, but it's measured at the side seam rather than the usual way of measuring at center front to crotch. Because this draft automagically produces the slanted waist from the measurements taken, the side seam to chair seat measurement is a good measurement to draft from.
Also: when you change sizes and want a new pattern... a good crotch curve that actually fits you will hold constant for at least a size up and down from the one it was drafted for... and often it will hold for two sizes up or down. So to change a too-small pattern, all you have to do is cut the original up the center of the leg, from hem to waist, and then open or close the pattern on that cut line 1/4 of the desired amount. Rejigger the darts to suit your new body and reshape the leg and you're in business.
Kay
Kay
Last few fitting tips for you, Anne:
1) Hand baste. with contrasting thread, the grainlines on the center front and center back of the legs, and across the widest part of the abdomen and backside, so you can make sure the grainlines are straight when you fit.If the grainlines are twisted at all on your body, you're going to make things worse, not better, by attempting to alter.
2) Cut the pattern meticulously; make double extra sure the grainlines of the pattern match the grainlines of the fabric. Again, a grainline that's off can lead you down the primrose path to Pattern Alteration Hell.3) To find the nominal knee line of the pattern, fold the pattern's legging in half widthwise, bringing the hemline to the level of the crotch extension. Mark it. The Rules:
a) Above the knee line, you can alter the pants on the inseam or outseam or both, as needed, as long as the grain line remains centered on your leg. Take the same amount from the front and back of the pants on these alterations (assuming you started with a balanced pattern).
b) Below the knee line, you must take equal amounts from the inseam and outseam, both front and back. e.g.: say you want to reduce the hem circumference by 1".... take 1/4" out of the front inseam, front outseam, back inseam, back outseam to do this. Otherwise, the pants will twist as you walk.
4) Don't overfit. It's a common tendency to want technically perfect pants, but usually when you start taking out too much ease, the pants become perfect only for one purpose, like standing or sitting -- and rarely for walking. A skim fit it much more flattering than paper on the wall, anyhow.Kay
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