Hi,
Do you know if there is any way to buy Gutermann thread inexpensively? I was wondering if it can be bought in bulk online or anything? I seem to get through quite a lot of it and it is quite expensive in the shops. I can imagine that for people who do a lot of machine embroidery it must really become very expensive.
Thanks,
Jen
I usually scurry off to JoAnn Fabrics when they offer the coupons. Have you tried ebay to see if anyone is selling spools there? Just a suggestion.
If it's normally expensive, I'd be leery of buying it off eBay. So much stuff there is counterfeit.
JoAnns in the US often has it for 40-50% off. Mayhap there are similar deals in the UK. I'm using it less and less, however, because it's become a good deal more fuzzy (cheaper) than it used to be. Older Gutermann tubes that I have are nearly as clean as Metrosene but many of the new ones (here in the States) are unmistakably linty. I am therefore trying out some other brands of thread including So Fine and Masterpiece by Superior.
Phae
I honestly wish that the regular stores I deal with hereabouts were as dependable and honest as the vast majority of sellers I've personally encountered on eBay. Ebay does have a good rating system and you should never buy anything of value from someone with very few sales or a rating less than 98%. If it looks too good to be true, you can be sure that something is indeed awry. You have to read all the seller's terms and what people say about him/her, ask questions when you don't know something, and *never* make assumptions. Where most people get into trouble is not reading the sale ad and not being careful.
OTOH, eBay is not the place to buy thread unless you know for sure that the thread hasn't been lying around for fifty years in someone's attic. :)
Phae
It's probabliy the Mexican-made nad not the German-made thread.
Gutterman is made in many places, and very little I buy is still spun in Germany. Even their silk is becoming less reliable, which is why I've been hunting for alternatives. I've ordered some YLI silk from the USA, and when I get it and try it, I'll let you know the results. I already love their cotton for piecing patchwork, and intend to get more fro garment construction. For poly threads I like Empress Mills here in the UK, and find Gutterman poly is still usually fine - it's their cotton and silk that had gone downhill. :( I don't like Drima at all, and never have since they started making it, but good old fashioned Sylco is usually OK for cotton thread for garment making.
Maybe with thread....
....but I collect/restore vintage sewing machines and there are many sellers who purposefully deceive people into believing a machine made for home use is an "industrial strength machine.' They are vintage machines made for the home, machines that are indeed all-metal but that some are trying to sell as industrials, and making big bucks on them. Problem is these home machines are not industrial models and will not hold up to 'industrial' use. They also write up their ads to make the buyer think that only a skilled sewing machine repair technician can 'set' up a machine to work properly. What a load of gunk.=20
Even my Featherweights can sew through 8 layers of denim, a leather belt, and several layers of canvas.... I suppose someday I'll see one listed as an 'industrial' on eBay....
Then there are sellers who do not know how to properly pack an item. This may not be an issue when it comes to thread but it sure is when it comes to a vintage sewing machine. On the sewing machine groups I belong to I often read about tales of woe - machines that show up in pieces at your door. And a seller who claims the damage problem is the fault of the shipper opposed to their faulty packing. Insurance is often optional in these sales when the seller should include it automatically, and insurance will never actually replace the smashed machine you were so looking forward to....
Sorry to ramble...can you tell this is a sore spot with me :)
-Irene
-------------- You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.=20
--Mae West=20
--------------
Good and bad packing are not just confined to eBay... I've had some fabric that was severely damaged by bad packing, and some that was like trying to get into Fort Nox and the Bank of England! Sheesh! Nuclear warheads are easier to gain access to than some of this stuff! ;)
Having spent large parts of my youth moving house (yea, even unto Foreign Climes), I know good packing when I see it: thread that is loose in a paper envelope that is torn and damaged by rain ain't well packed. Thread in a box that it sealed in plastic that takes 15 minutes to get into is!
Beverly, I have first-had knowledge of what ignorance does to a sewing machine: my mother's 99K was packed in the original packing it came with for shipping to Malta: this, unfortunately, while good for general shipping purposes, did not save it from being dropped into the hold of the ship from about 40 feet... :( I now own bits of it and the machine(s) cannibalized to revive it by the OSMG in Malta: in its Frankensinger state, this was the first machine I sewed a whole garment on! While it was annoying for Mum at the time, it wasn't the tragedy that similar damage will be for a pre-1900 Golden Oldie, or a rare sewing bird in full decal plumage. Some of those old machines have been family treasures and no insurance will ever replace something you wanted to give a good home to where it would earn respect and still sew occasional treasures of the heirloom and quilt species! ;)
Those ebay scam artists need to be stitched together with some of their 'industrial strength' machines!
Ah ha... well that would sure explain it. Then they needn't wonder why fewer people are buying Gutermann.
I've looked at the sewing machine ads on eBay for many months and I think I have a pretty good idea what you're talking about. However, there are warnings posted all over the place (almost daily in fact) about the frauds (which are mainly off shore btw). Furthermore, it's so obvious I can't imagine why anyone with an ounce of common sense would be taken in any more than by someone selling "Rolexes" out of their coat pocket. [...]
It boggles the imagination why anyone would buy something of significant value from someone who either (1) had a bad rating or recent negative commentary; (2) ran a "too good to be true" ad; (3) offered no insurance or refund (!); (4) had very few or no sales when it's so easy to check and see. (5) Offered less than professional packing (that means taking it to a place that does that & insures it as as part of their enterprise); and (6) failed to offer the Ebay protection plan.
Again, caveat emptor. Buying anything of value that is not insured or w/o attending to the terms of sale & shipment in advance is pretty harebrained IMO. I'm not saying that it's all the buyer's fault but it is certainly *in part* the buyer's fault for being so careless.
I can tell. But I think it is unreasonable to condemn an entire service because a few people are either dishonest or negligent. There are many honorable people who sell on Ebay and though I've never sold anything there, I certainly buy all the time. In over 100 purchases, I've never once been cheated. I had a package not arrive and was refunded my money by the seller in full even though it was not insured (it was under $30). And when I (rarely) buy something that is said to be in "as is" condition, I expect the worst.
Phae
Oh don't get me started on movers and relocation services. In our many long distance moves, I never let the movers take the computers or sewing machines. But if I had to let them take one of the two, it would be the computers. :) My DH's model brigantine for which I'd spent many hours stitching up the gazillion sails was simply smashed into a carton by a packer. All the rigging and masts were totally destroyed, not to speak of the hundreds of tiny details he'd spent a multitude of hours refining. Yet another was crated (as we had specified) in wood and survived intact. Sometimes, no matter how many precautions you take, things happen.
OTOH, a dear friend "rescued" an heirloom platter from the hands of a packer only to drop it herself a few minutes later.
Phae
Kate, while I agree with everything you had to say, you were responding to a message from "IMS", not from me.
Beverly
On Mon, 08 May 2006 11:15:32 -0500, Phaedrine wrote:
The frauds you speak of are indeed obvious, however the ones the previous poster was talking about are not. These are machines, common every day machines listed as "industrial strength" or Industrial like" etc. They are NOT remotely like in strength or otherwise Industrial and yet sell for hundreds of dollars daily. Often we track a $25 sale on an eBay auction to see who buys, then try to predict when they will re list it as an "industrial Strength/like" machine that will sell for a few hundred. They are sold by ordinary people touting them selves as skilled repair people, when in fact they are not. They make claims to have re-tooled the machines to Industrial capabilities when this cannot happen. They state rpm's of motors as a selling point, even though most motors are identical on all domestics. They state skill levels that do not exist. They are frauds plain an simple, and while the collectors and others have tired for 5 years to get them off of eBay they are still there, still sucking people in and still getting away with it. We have posted buyers guides (and they have posted their own, stealing from our guys), reported them to eBay and keep contacting to and telling buyers over and over that these machine will not do what it is said they will do for very long. In fact the sewing samples are NOT from any of these machines displayed for sale and passed from one machine to another. Take a good look at the samples, they are NOT being done on the machines in the photos.
Unfortunately this type of auction is not obviously a "Rolex" type auction, they accept Pay Pal, are in the US and Canada, have real addresses, and the feedback for these guys is good.......possibly because it is written before the actual machine fails and cannot be re-written.
If you want a machine and want to buy off eBay get yourself over to one of the lists dedicated to that make or model. They WILL tell you the truth about that particular auction and that machine.....Most will not jump your auction as we detest that too, but will give you the right information. These adds have nothing to do with the "too good to be true" embroidery machine adds and are something entirely different.
To see a load of this BS just type Industrial Strength Sewing Machine into the eBay search box, be warned to keep you boots on and your shovel ready...........You will be able to tell the "real" ones from the frauds simply because they look so different.
Oops! Sorry... Brain's on the fritz today. Blame the fibro and 500mg of ibuprofen! I'm off to eat banana bread...
Nothing to apologize for, I just didn't want to take credit for IMS's message. Hope the ibuprofen is working for you, have a nice cuppa with your banana bread.
Beverly
The banana bread is making up for the lack of sanity, and the tea is Earl Grey! Unfortunately the last load of ibuprofen is wearing off... Time to take some more and surrender myself to mindless telly for the evening, as I can't think straight!
Is this one of the ones you're talking about?
I did an ebay search and came up with a lot of hits searching on "industrial" "strength" "sewing" "machine". Good grief! But I only looked at this one. The seller has 100% positive ratings. To me, that is a tad suspicious since no one is perfect. However, I agree that it could be very misleading! How could so many people rate this seller so highly if not true? Or are you saying that the ratings are somehow being manipulated?
OTOH, this auction does not come with a buyer protection plan--- first clue! Next clue is that it's from Canada and for US buyers, Light only knows what laws would apply. And the next clue is where it says that the pictures are not of the machine he is selling. There is also no warranty whatsoever. And that is something you would expect on a refurbished item like that. Other than that, I agree that the ad looks pretty good and could be very misleading to even buyers who pay *some* attention--- but not to those who pay adequate attention. What do the rest of you think? I think I'd need recommendations from people I know personally before I'd ever buy something like this over the internet.
There's a whole slew of them here:
Some manufacturers DO make both industrial and domestic models: go to the manufacturer's web sites and take a good look at the differences: most industrial machines are much bigger, many have external and separate motors, their stitch functions are fewer (certainly than most modern domestic machines) as they are usually single purpose machines, and they need a dedicated table or bench, rather than coming in a portable case. Here are some of examples of real industrial machines:
Yes it is and I did not even have to look at the add, his ID is infamous. We don't know how the ratings work, 100% is not abnormal, but either he is selling to all his friends or the buyers are just stupid. Leaving feedback is often done quickly when the machine is received in good condition, but how long can it remain in good condition sewing something that it is not meant to be sewing constantly. Any machine can sew leather----but for how long.
This is only one of a dozen of these guys, mostly they are from the US, the worst of the bunch are from Florida and California. Those guys have been doing this for about 5 years now, the Canadians have just joined this very lucrative type of sales group. The laws for Fraud in Canada are much more harsh than in the US. However alcnational is actually in Ohio, with a guy in Canada that buys from eBay and then ships from Canada for him. alcnational has another name that I escapes me at the moment as he has not been too active in the past 3 months on eBay. But he has sold hundreds of overpriced domestic machines in the past few years. Maybe they caught up with him and now the guy in Quebec is his front man. Here is a partial list of the worst of the bunch, believe me there area several more: sewmac10, singerman12 (real slime ball) barclay, busmanpro,Northsacutions, MBMotorsports (another sleazy guy), bookseller. Just to give you a few eBay Ids. Then there are the re-sellers who sell for other people as in the case with alcnational.....there are about 10 of them. The vintage list keep an eye on them but even reporting over and over this fraud is doing nothing to alleviate the problem and they are multiplying. I wrote to several newspapers and TV stations figuring they would like a "real" eBay story----not one replied even to check out the story.........but that is what is needed ----international exposure for these crooks.
Buying over the Internet is not a problem, you can get stiffed in person too, but doing your research and homework is very important no matter what the item. I have gotten several FW's from Internet auctions all for under $100.00 each and they were in excellent shape,all but one giving away just as they came from the seller. All my Singer 301's better machines structurally and mechanically than the FW came from eBay, all were excellent deals and pristine in condition. BUT I knew what to ask and researched who I was buying from. A little time invested is going to bring good results. There are very good machines and other sewing equipment to be had on the Internet and most sellers are very very honest......it is their income after all.
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